- Feb 15, 2015
I know, but I presume the weight on the front wheel is similar on both CB & CBR but not identical. Hence why I would prefer it unloaded but loaded will suffice for those without front head stands.
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All 650's Suspension
- Thread starter Remek
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- forks preload spring suspension
I know, but I presume the weight on the front wheel is similar on both CB & CBR but not identical. Hence why I would prefer it unloaded but loaded will suffice for those without front head stands.
I’m checking the parts listings and can’t find a difference in part numbers between fork leg assemblies within the same year cb vs Cbr650f.
It also appears the 2017/2018 dual bending valve forks fit on 2014 to 2106 cb and cbr650fs.
I’m going to the dealer tomorrow to
measure forks on the new cb and cbr650s they have.
My hypothesis is that the cbr triple trees are 2” closer top to bottom than the cb. Therefore all the fork legs are the same length and are all interchangable.
It also appears the 2017/2018 dual bending valve forks fit on 2014 to 2106 cb and cbr650fs.
I’m going to the dealer tomorrow to
measure forks on the new cb and cbr650s they have.
My hypothesis is that the cbr triple trees are 2” closer top to bottom than the cb. Therefore all the fork legs are the same length and are all interchangable.
Lower legs are the same. Stanchions are not.
J
J
This is an incorrect hypothesis. The internals are the same, the fork uppers and spring spacers are different. Also, the frames are identical between the CB and CBR versions so the triple clamps can’t be closer together or the headstock would have to be different and it’s not. The upper triple clamp is different to allow mounting of handlebars on the bridge.
Link to 2018 CBR fork assembly, the first year both models were available in the US. Check fitment tab:
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/detail/honda/51400-mje-db1/b4422240?m=162249&sch=1051096
Link to 2018 CB fork, again, check fitmemt tab:
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/detail/honda/51400-mje-df1/b4422241?m=162246&sch=1050871
You are correct that the dual bending forks are a direct swap but the performance is really not significantly better so you’d be further ahead springing the fork correctly for your weight.
This is correct.
If the forks were exactly the same, the front of the CBR would be ~2” lower, that’s a huge difference and stuff would hit under fork compression and you’d drag the pipes all the time. Not to mention the bike would be unstable as hell.
Don’t overthink it, the fork uppers are longer the length of the clip ons. In an open style fork like the CB and CBR had you only need longer upper tubes and longer spring spacers to make them fit. In a cartridge fork, the inner cartridge runs from the length of the cap to the lower leg and is bolted in place. That’s why length is so important.
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- Feb 15, 2015
This is why I'm trying to find the size difference for my suspension guy. He's going to assess the parts and see whether I'd be losing too much travel from the top out spring before fully fitting them. If it's just a spacer job then some of that travel can be restored and it will become more feasible. Hassle yes, but the kit was part of a one time bargain I had when buying the shock so, worth it financially.
Is it reasonable to assume the only difference in stanchion length is the amount used up for the clip ons then? If so I'd be grateful if someone could quickly size them up for me, preferably in mm to be precise.
The spacer in the ohlins kit for cbr only use is ~38mm, this indicates the rough difference.
- Feb 15, 2015
Thanks Brammers, I'd appreciate if someone could still take a measurement but that's better than nothing.
On a separate note...
U @Jetflo69 just looking at your shock install again and I think it's the wrong way round? I've attached a screenshot of installation instructions for ho428 and it says gas valve facing to the left but yours is to the right. Also the Ohlins logo is just out of sight facing down to your exhaust.
I'm no suspension expert I have no idea if this will affect performance but it twigged when I caught the corner of your logo, I installed mine last night and remembered reading about a specific side for it to face.
On a separate note...
U @Jetflo69 just looking at your shock install again and I think it's the wrong way round? I've attached a screenshot of installation instructions for ho428 and it says gas valve facing to the left but yours is to the right. Also the Ohlins logo is just out of sight facing down to your exhaust.
I'm no suspension expert I have no idea if this will affect performance but it twigged when I caught the corner of your logo, I installed mine last night and remembered reading about a specific side for it to face.
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My bad, just looked up a pic of the spacer... 29.09mm according to my calipers. Tolerance +/- 1mm
That's the difference in length between cb and cbr stanchions according to öhlins.
J
That's the difference in length between cb and cbr stanchions according to öhlins.
J
The difference between cb and cbr forks is 1.5” of total length. All of it is in the silver stantion, the casings or lower fork legs are the same.
The 2018 Cbr650f fork is the same length and has all the same fittings for the fender, reflectors, brake system and calipers as 2014 to 2016 cbr 650fs.
My dealer has agreed to install 2018 Cbr650f dual bending valve forks on my 2014 Cbr650f.
It will take two weeks to get parts and have them installed. The cost is about $900 including tax and labor.
I’ll probably sell my old fork leg assemblies on eBay to get back a couple hundred of that.
The 2018 Cbr650f fork is the same length and has all the same fittings for the fender, reflectors, brake system and calipers as 2014 to 2016 cbr 650fs.
My dealer has agreed to install 2018 Cbr650f dual bending valve forks on my 2014 Cbr650f.
It will take two weeks to get parts and have them installed. The cost is about $900 including tax and labor.
I’ll probably sell my old fork leg assemblies on eBay to get back a couple hundred of that.
U @Jetflo69, I’m not trying to dissuade you from improving your bike but I encourage you to do some research on what you’re buying because you’re going to be outlaying more money on these forks than you did on the shock and you’re not going to be getting a lot in return. It will still be squishy because the springs are too light, it will still have an inconsistent feel because it’s an open bath fork and you still won’t have any preload adjustment for your weight.
All Showa did was add a valve in the open bath forks that helps control the oil movement in both directions, compression and rebound. It’s nothing that will make a major difference and you’ll still have inadequate action of the front end and have spent a lot of money to do this swap.
Read this link, this is almost exactly what the Showa design mimics:
http://store.ricorshocks.com/ias_technology_s/19.htm
These DBV forks are used a lot on Harley’s, and reading reports from owners shows no change in feel in everyday riding, and that most people didn’t notice a difference at all. If you want to go that route, adding a valve to the action, I’d recommend either the Ricor Intimidators or a Race Tech Gold Valve drop it as you’ll get much more bang for your buck.
Otherwise a lot of us have done the Ohlins FSK spring kit and have had very favorable results, the bike is MUCH better balanced and the forks ride where they should. It’s a nice step up from stock without needlessly breaking the bank. And if you want great forks, contact the guy I’ve linked on eBay and get cartridges installed for the $550 range.
Your call, I know youre trying things and want something bolt on, but I feel the money could be better spent.
Also, $900 is pretty high considering you can get the fork assembly for $250 each through bike bandit so $400 labor on something that should take less than an hour to do is crazy.
I think I am different from most riders. I can’t make my bike less safe even if the potential improvement might not be as good.
In September 2017 the carbon fiber fork on my less than a year old very very expensive road bike shattered while I was riding it on smooth level pavement. It was a near fatal accident. I can’t state brand.
My skull and spine were broken in a dozen places. My upper jaw was broken completely away from my skull. I could not eat or talk. Lots of surgeries and lengthy period on disability. I still have a lot of pain and I will always be 2” shorter. And yes, there was evidence of Brian damage.
I have a good job and I can afford to pay someone else to work on my motorcycle. I prefer this because if something goes wrong from their mistakes, they are legally liable.
My bike has 22,000 miles on it. It needs the forks serviced. I insist on my Dealer working on the bike. That’s about $400 with parts.
Putting on a new pair of forks will be at least as good as having my old ones serviced. After I sell the old fork legs, it will only cost me about $100 more.
My bike will be comprised of all OEM Honda parts installed by a Honda dealer. It will work better even if the improvement is small and Honda remains legally liable for the whole bike not failing catastrophically and landing me in the hospital (again).
The real question you should be asking now is how I have found the courage to ride any two wheel vehicle ever again after such terrible injuries and being a middle aged man with a good job.
The answer is I am a lot more careful now about who gets to touch my bike. I hold no qualification for motorcycle repair. I would never allow me to work on my motorcycle beyond keeping the tires properly inflated, the chain lubed and the occasional washing.
I only pay people with legitamate qualifications to work on my motorcycle.
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- May 16, 2017
I sympathise with your situation, It must be very bit scary now after all that shit you have gone through, and I can understand your concerns. I don't think miweber was having a pop, I think he was more concerned about the cost involved not knowing your situation. Good on you mate, safe biking for the future.
Sorry for what you went through, I had no idea.
Please take my comments just as they were written, no offense meant and I’m not asking you to pay for inferior to work on your bike. Whatever makes YOU feel comfortable is what is important here. For me, and me only, the only person I truly trust to work on my stuff is me which is why I suggest people do it as often as they can, if they know how to do it.
Also take these next comments in the same vein:
You have an Ohlins shock on your bike, correct? That’s not OEM Honda, so only OEM parts is not a hard and fast rule. And according to @Daniel’s observations the shop you had do your work put your shock on backwards. The install manual CLEARLY states how to install it, in a couple places too. I’m sure it’s just fine as is but you’re placing a huge amount if trust into a shop that obviously didn’t read directions fully on a very simple task.
You had a mechanical failure of a part and paid a VERY dear price for it. I’m very sorry you went through that. Please don’t blindly trust someone because they have Honda printed on their shirt, many dealerships have poor personal working at them that can do more harm than good. You may think that buying OEM forks will give you some leverage in the event of a failure but I seriously doubt it will since they are built by Showa, not Honda, and they are NOT the forks that came, and were designed, for your 2014 motorcycle.
A fork refresh should be around $250-300, you’ll MAYBE get $200 for your OEM forks. You were honest with me, I'm being honest with you.
Good luck with this project, keep us informed.
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You are correct, I broke my own rules putting an Ohlins shock on my bike. I
am surprised to find the dealer installed it backwards. I did trust them to do the job right.
I judged Ohlins a US based company with liability insurance and took a risk on it. It was the same decision with the Michelin Pilot Road tires.
I’ll make the dealer fix the shock install. Glad to hear the manual is explicit about it so I don’t have to explain anything.
I honestly didn’t know it mattered which way the shock is installed along as it is right side up. How ironic.
am surprised to find the dealer installed it backwards. I did trust them to do the job right.
I judged Ohlins a US based company with liability insurance and took a risk on it. It was the same decision with the Michelin Pilot Road tires.
I’ll make the dealer fix the shock install. Glad to hear the manual is explicit about it so I don’t have to explain anything.
I honestly didn’t know it mattered which way the shock is installed along as it is right side up. How ironic.
- Feb 15, 2015
You are correct, I broke my own rules putting an Ohlins shock on my bike.
l'll make the dealer fix the shock install. Glad to hear the manual is explicit about it so I don’t have to explain anything.
I honestly didn’t know it mattered which way the shock is installed along as it is right side up. How ironic.
Shocking stuff 😉
Some rules are meant to be broken! Your comprehensive review lends itself to not mattering which way round it goes but, I can't help thinking if the manual says it should face left, it must be for a reason.
Sorry to hear you went through such a horrid incident like that, I hope the legal pursuit proves fortuitous for you. It's amazing it hasn't put you off riding though, most people are put off by a lot less!
Whole-heartedly agree. I've said before this bike has been a testing ground for me from day one. I've fit everything to it myself, most of it first time jobs, including the shock absorber on the weekend although I wouldn't recommend my method of taking the weight off the back wheel! 😅 Did the job though. With a service book, patience and right equipment you can't go wrong. I know every section of my bike and that it's just as integral as the day I bought it.
I'm very, very poor now, but my ass is on cloud nine 👍
I’ve been reading all I can about the dual bending valve fork. There’s surprisingly few early fork vs dual bending valve version side by side tests on Honda cb/cbr 650fs or cb1100Ex or any of the Harleys that received this update.
Has anyone actually compared them?
The negative posts on the Harley forum did not say the dual bending valve is bad. The poster sees them as about $2 of parts and says they don’t deserve all the hype. He’s claiming they are not future technology and such claims are nonsense. A follow up post asks “so do they offer any improvement” to which there is no reply.
If I understand what I have read, and it’s a pile of conjecture and marketing hype, dual bending valves reduce float by tightening up low speed compression and “modulating” rebound. There is no claimed benefit to high speed damping rebound or compression.
The problem I am trying to solve is that my 2014 Cbr650f after 22k miles has a very “floaty” fork that feels vague in turns. It’s like the fork needs a second to get into turning and if you rush it then it just takes longer to lock in. The bike handles best when you keep the load on the back tire by braking before the turn.
Unlike the stock rear shock, I don’t feel the stock 2014 fork is all that bad with sharp bumps at high speeds even with 22k miles on it. My bike is wonderful on the highway. It’s just the twisties that seem to “confuse” my bike and make it feel clumsy.
Why wouldn’t the upgrade to dual bending valves be of interest?
Has anyone actually compared them?
The negative posts on the Harley forum did not say the dual bending valve is bad. The poster sees them as about $2 of parts and says they don’t deserve all the hype. He’s claiming they are not future technology and such claims are nonsense. A follow up post asks “so do they offer any improvement” to which there is no reply.
If I understand what I have read, and it’s a pile of conjecture and marketing hype, dual bending valves reduce float by tightening up low speed compression and “modulating” rebound. There is no claimed benefit to high speed damping rebound or compression.
The problem I am trying to solve is that my 2014 Cbr650f after 22k miles has a very “floaty” fork that feels vague in turns. It’s like the fork needs a second to get into turning and if you rush it then it just takes longer to lock in. The bike handles best when you keep the load on the back tire by braking before the turn.
Unlike the stock rear shock, I don’t feel the stock 2014 fork is all that bad with sharp bumps at high speeds even with 22k miles on it. My bike is wonderful on the highway. It’s just the twisties that seem to “confuse” my bike and make it feel clumsy.
Why wouldn’t the upgrade to dual bending valves be of interest?
This is all correct. I never said it was “bad” just not much different than what you have. That’s why you’re not gaining much for the swap.
Heavier fork oil, proper springs for your weight and adjusting the preload for proper sag will handle that quite well. Or as it’s better known, the Ohlins FSK -105 fork kit.
Because it doesn’t really do anything to the actual weak points of the fork, the weak springs. As you found Showa is throwing a couple dollars of washers and “valves” trying make the open bath for work better.It really doesn’t.
Unless you want to go with a full replacement cartridge setup, you’ll be looking at a compromise. The Ohlins kit is the best reasonable priced option.
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Yeah I do see my question isn’t getting answered here because nobody’s actually compared old style to SDBV forks in a head to head road test.
I’ll just have to find out for myself. My dealer will install 2018 SDBV forks as planned.
Work on your own bike at your own risk! Don’t let anyone pressure you into doing a job that you don’t feel comfortable doing. It is bad advice and could get you hurt.
I’ll just have to find out for myself. My dealer will install 2018 SDBV forks as planned.
Work on your own bike at your own risk! Don’t let anyone pressure you into doing a job that you don’t feel comfortable doing. It is bad advice and could get you hurt.
- Feb 15, 2015
Why not get them to refit your shock and request a 2017> CBR as a replacement while it's in the shop? Could potentially save you some disappointment if there is no noticeable difference and give you a chance to play around with it before committing?
As has been said, $900 does seem very expensive and the majority of us can see a lot more bang for your buck with the alternative fork options. But I appreciate your perspective and circumstance as mentioned earlier.
As has been said, $900 does seem very expensive and the majority of us can see a lot more bang for your buck with the alternative fork options. But I appreciate your perspective and circumstance as mentioned earlier.
Called Ohlins USA. It does not matter if the shock is mounted with the gas valve on the right or left. They said it should be right side up.
I finally found a shop in my area, Evolution Motorcyles, that has installed the Andreani cartridge kit. I bring them the bike and parts, they install for about $300 labor.
That changes everything. It’s back to plan A: put cartridge kit into my stock 2014 fork.
I’ve ordered new bottom bolts w/washers, full set of bushings and the seal kits from Honda Parts House. The Andreani cartridge kit is on order from Fast Bike Industries. That’s about $750 total including tax and 2 day shipping.
So this is going to cost me about $1000.
Someone with more patience and willing to DIY could probably do it for less than $700.
Happy Birthday to Me!
I finally found a shop in my area, Evolution Motorcyles, that has installed the Andreani cartridge kit. I bring them the bike and parts, they install for about $300 labor.
That changes everything. It’s back to plan A: put cartridge kit into my stock 2014 fork.
I’ve ordered new bottom bolts w/washers, full set of bushings and the seal kits from Honda Parts House. The Andreani cartridge kit is on order from Fast Bike Industries. That’s about $750 total including tax and 2 day shipping.
So this is going to cost me about $1000.
Someone with more patience and willing to DIY could probably do it for less than $700.
Happy Birthday to Me!