All 650's Suspension

[koofdome]

Yes, crank the preload up to the max or a few away from max and the bike will be much more stable and handle better with a passenger. You do need to do this for the bike to work properly.

What are your weights? It'll be easier to tell you how far to adjust knowing that. I'm 240lbs or so, the wife is around 140 so we went to max when we carry luggage, one notch down when we don't.

Stock your bike doesn't have preload capability but for an hours time and $65 you can add it. Search on my bike build thread for what I originally did before I went full Ohlins.

I would never set suspension to the max unless your body weight requires that. A stiff suspension does not increase handling or performance either. It will throw a rider from a bike. Check David Moss.

 

[Sunde]

I would never set suspension to the max unless your body weight requires that. A stiff suspension does not increase handling or performance either. It will throw a rider from a bike. Check David Moss.

Nothing wrong with a stiff suspension tbh, just needs to be compliant, not rock hard.

 

[miweber929]

I would never set suspension to the max unless your body weight requires that. A stiff suspension does not increase handling or performance either. It will throw a rider from a bike. Check David Moss.

Agreed, however the suspension rates on a stock 650F would dictate to full stiff unless you both are under 125#. And as stated above, stiff is fine as long as it's compliant.

Dave Moss is great, but in the end he's just a guy that knows suspension, makes videos and likes to talk about it. A lot of others out there know as much or more than him but aren't as vocal. Just my opinion, however.

 

[koofdome]

Agreed, however the suspension rates on a stock 650F would dictate to full stiff unless you both are under 125#. And as stated above, stiff is fine as long as it's compliant.

Dave Moss is great, but in the end he's just a guy that knows suspension, makes videos and likes to talk about it. A lot of others out there know as much or more than him but aren't as vocal. Just my opinion, however.

I would agree then on that.

I also do need to soften my suspension a bit though, that rear spring has zero static sag. Stiff as a rock from factory on setting #2 of 7. Which # do u think is a bit softer??

 

[miweber929]

I would agree then on that.

I also do need to soften my suspension a bit though, that rear spring has zero static sag. Stiff as a rock from factory on setting #2 of 7. Which # do u think is a bit softer??

You asked this in another thread: #1 is softer.

However with your size and weight, as well as the way Honda springs their motorcycles, I wouldn’t go less. Your bike, however.

 

[koofdome]

You asked this in another thread: #1 is softer.

However with your size and weight, as well as the way Honda springs their motorcycles, I wouldn’t go less. Your bike, however.

dam if #2 feels stiff with almost zero static sag, what would #7 feel like? A welded spring stiff as a rock?

 

[Brammers]

I'm on #5 with some sag. It's all a matter of weight. I use #7 when carrying a pillion, feels the same as #5 solo.

J

 

[miweber929]

dam if #2 feels stiff with almost zero static sag, what would #7 feel like? A welded spring stiff as a rock?

Not sure what other bikes you've owned/ridden but I am not the only one to go by what I outlined worked for me:

I'm on #5 with some sag. It's all a matter of weight. I use #7 when carrying a pillion, feels the same as #5 solo.

J

If you truly have ZERO static sag and it's jarring on #2 at your size, I'd seriously say you have an issue and should get your suspension looked at.

 

[Dankotaru]

If you truly have ZERO static sag and it's jarring on #2 at your size, I'd seriously say you have an issue and should get your suspension looked at.

This. Zero sag with so little preload at your weight doesn't sound right at all, and makes me wonder about the condition of your shock.

 

[koofdome]

This. Zero sag with so little preload at your weight doesn't sound right at all, and makes me wonder about the condition of your shock.

it's a brand new bike I got it with 0 miles, it's got about 1500 now. Just purchased it brand new from dealer 3 months ago it's always been this way

I can't pull up on the rear at all.

 

[Dankotaru]

it's a brand new bike I got it with 0 miles, it's got about 1500 now. Just purchased it brand new from dealer 3 months ago it's always been this way

I can't pull up on the rear at all.

OK, so you're saying that without you on the bike, the shock is at full extension already? My 650R doesn't have much extension unladen, less than a cm when I measured, I don't remember exactly. But I don't think that measure is sag. The difference between that fully extended position and the position with you in full gear on the bike is sag.

Or are you saying that even with you on the bike in full gear, the shock doesn't compress under your weight and also won't extend up? Because that makes me think you have an issue with your shock.

 

[koofdome]

OK, so you're saying that without you on the bike, the shock is at full extension already? My 650R doesn't have much extension unladen, less than a cm when I measured, I don't remember exactly. But I don't think that measure is sag. The difference between that fully extended position and the position with you in full gear on the bike is sag.

Or are you saying that even with you on the bike in full gear, the shock doesn't compress under your weight and also won't extend up? Because that makes me think you have an issue with your shock.

Perhaps I am the wrong one here then I would say. When the bike is just on its sidestand, with me off, it does not lift up nearly at all when I pull the rear end up. Moves the entire bike.

When I sit on it, yes it definitely goes down. Just feels really stiff on bumps and any little crack in the road. Really hurts my ass.

 

[Dankotaru]

Perhaps I am the wrong one here then I would say. When the bike is just on its sidestand, with me off, it does not lift up nearly at all when I pull the rear end up. Moves the entire bike.

When I sit on it, yes it definitely goes down. Just feels really stiff on bumps and any little crack in the road. Really hurts my ass.

Then try increasing the preload. Preload doesn't change the spring rate, it changes the static position of the piston in the shock when you are on the bike. With low preload, and your weight on the bike, the shock is already near the bottom of its compression travel. Increasing the preload will allow the shock to operate with more compression travel while you are on the bike.

 

[miweber929]

Then try increasing the preload. Preload doesn't change the spring rate, it changes the static position of the piston in the shock when you are on the bike. With low preload, and your weight on the bike, the shock is already near the bottom of its compression travel. Increasing the preload will allow the shock to operate with more compression travel while you are on the bike.

I disagree with this, increasing his preload will make the bike ride much rougher than it already is.

@koofdome take a pic of your shock collar so we can see where it's set. The bike has a very simple shock system with no linkage in the operation, it's not a soft and supple ride and will kick back on sharp edged bumps. A quality shock will help that.

 

[Dankotaru]

I disagree with this, increasing his preload will make the bike ride much rougher than it already is.

How do you figure? He's on #2, which is pretty low preload, and he weighs 240 lbs, maybe more with gear. I think if he measured his rear sag, he'd find he's really limiting the compression travel of his shock at that preload. Just like Brammers ups it to 7 from 5 when he has a passenger, more weight requires more preload to keep the shock in its optimum operating range, and I bet he's outside of that range with his weight and a preload of 2.

 

[miweber929]

How do you figure? He's on #2, which is pretty low preload, and he weighs 240 lbs, maybe more with gear. I think if he measured his rear sag, he'd find he's really limiting the compression travel of his shock at that preload. Just like Brammers ups it to 7 from 5 when he has a passenger, more weight requires more preload to keep the shock in its optimum operating range, and I bet he's outside of that range with his weight and a preload of 2.

OK, I guess if your thought is he's bottoming out then increasing the preload could help but I do not believe he would be at #2 and 215lbs. He's not far from it but unless he lives on a crater filled road he's not grossly over what the shock can handle at that setting. At 240lbs I was on #3 and didn't bottom out.

"Optimum" is a subjective thing on a "budget" OEM shock.

If he has zero static sag at #2 on the preload, I'd say something isn't right. But then again I haven't owned a 650 in 3 years and the last 2 were with an Ohlins shock so what do I know........

 

[Dankotaru]

OK, I guess if your thought is he's bottoming out then increasing the preload could help but I do not believe he would be at #2 and 215lbs. He's not far from it but unless he lives on a crater filled road he's not grossly over what the shock can handle at that setting. At 240lbs I was on #3 and didn't bottom out.

"Optimum" is a subjective thing on a "budget" OEM shock.

If he has zero static sag at #2 on the preload, I'd say something isn't right. But then again I haven't owned a 650 in 3 years and the last 2 were with an Ohlins shock so what do I know........

Yeah, I'm not saying 'optimum' for what he wants; just that his shock is set up as best as possible for his weight and riding to use most of it's range and not run out of compression stroke over bumps.

@koofdome, I mixed up your weight for 240, and not 215. I'm about 205 lbs with all gear, and on my R I found the stock preload of 2 let me bottom out only on deep potholes. It didn't happen often, but when it does, it's noticeable, lol. I imagine the F isn't much different, so you're probably not bottoming out as easily as I first thought. Still, if you set up rear sag like Dave Moss suggests (since you mentioned his videos), you'll find you need to add some preload. Setting the preload to 5 on my bike improved the ride and I haven't bottomed out since, but assuming the shock doesn't have any issues, you might need to look at aftermarket options if a correctly adjusted stock setup just isn't to your liking.

 

[ghehen]

OK, I guess if your thought is he's bottoming out then increasing the preload could help but I do not believe he would be at #2 and 215lbs. He's not far from it but unless he lives on a crater filled road he's not grossly over what the shock can handle at that setting. At 240lbs I was on #3 and didn't bottom out.

"Optimum" is a subjective thing on a "budget" OEM shock.

If he has zero static sag at #2 on the preload, I'd say something isn't right. But then again I haven't owned a 650 in 3 years and the last 2 were with an Ohlins shock so what do I know........

With infomation he give us, i guess he is on 5 but not on 2.


I'm about 79kg and with other stuff will increase to 90kg. I set my preload at 3 and have nice static sag about 30mm.
With him not on his bike but he can not lift the rear end ->preload setting is high and the bike's weight itself can not make rear shock spring move at all.
@koofdome pls give us a picture or you can get the picture i sticked above, set it to 3 as default. Try to pick your bike rear end up (mine is about 5mm-7mm) then sit on your bike and mesuare sag. If it more than 30mm get it to 4 and mesuare all again, you will find exactly what will give you more or less preload then find your right setting.
if you can not do it, your shock may have problem and malfuction.

 

[koofdome]

With infomation he give us, i guess he is on 5 but not on 2.
View attachment 7056

I'm about 79kg and with other stuff will increase to 90kg. I set my preload at 3 and have nice static sag about 30mm.
With him not on his bike but he can not lift the rear end ->preload setting is high and the bike's weight itself can not make rear shock spring move at all.
@koofdome pls give us a picture or you can get the picture i sticked above, set it to 3 as default. Try to pick your bike rear end up (mine is about 5mm-7mm) then sit on your bike and mesuare sag. If it more than 30mm get it to 4 and mesuare all again, you will find exactly what will give you more or less preload then find your right setting.
if you can not do it, your shock may have problem and malfuction.

I will take a photo of my shock to show u guys what setting it is on. Idk, the bike just feels really stiff, every bump hurts my ass.

 

[koofdome]

With infomation he give us, i guess he is on 5 but not on 2.
View attachment 7056

I'm about 79kg and with other stuff will increase to 90kg. I set my preload at 3 and have nice static sag about 30mm.
With him not on his bike but he can not lift the rear end ->preload setting is high and the bike's weight itself can not make rear shock spring move at all.
@koofdome pls give us a picture or you can get the picture i sticked above, set it to 3 as default. Try to pick your bike rear end up (mine is about 5mm-7mm) then sit on your bike and mesuare sag. If it more than 30mm get it to 4 and mesuare all again, you will find exactly what will give you more or less preload then find your right setting.
if you can not do it, your shock may have problem and malfuction.