- May 30, 2014
Going a bit OT here, I'll open another thread...
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Going a bit OT here, I'll open another thread...
- Thread starter
- #2
- May 30, 2014
So, seeing as I'm struggling to find the ohlins kit in the UK online...
Got any details that could help me through the process of DIY?
Got any details that could help me through the process of DIY?
- Thread starter
- #3
- May 30, 2014
Ok found the adjusters... £48 each! Kit is looking reasonably priced at this point.
- Oct 1, 2017
That link I posted earlier was for Omnia Racing in Italy, I got the Ohlins for £470 and free postage. They're OK, I ordered Mon5th, they in touch 6th for my Spec. They use UPS so you get multiple progress updates as it travels to you. It was shipped 12th and with me 14th exactly on time too
- Oct 1, 2017
That's cheaper than these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/08F73MGC...291763&hash=item25e9a442db:g:LoQAAOSwbF1aTMxr
- Thread starter
- #6
- May 30, 2014
Saw those, nearly spat my coffee out!
Found kais in Manchester, sent them an email.
Found kais in Manchester, sent them an email.
I think I went over it in this forum under my build thread, otherwise I know I for sure did on the other forum. Might have been in here under a generic Ohlins thread, I have no idea and I’m lazy, sorry. The Ohlins kit comes with adjustable fork caps, 7.5kg springs and precut spring spacers; what they don’t tell you is to get the kit to work right you need to buy the $25 quart of their “special” oil. The oil is labeled 20w but it’s not really a straight 20w oil, it’s a weird blend but it works. In the US you’re looking around $250 for the kit and $25 for the oil, plus whatever shipping and etc. goes you’re around $300. That’s the easy, simple way to do it.
So here’s what I originally did and you should use the service manual as a guide. Know now I have the Ohlins kit installed in mine but previously had just the adjustable fork caps which worked fine but I think with the fluid it would be a great budget setup. As
@baugustine said the Ohlins FSK kit are a solid upgrade, but for what you get, it’s pricey, no getting around that. So here’s a cheap way out for just adjustable fork caps if you want to be frugal:- Buy two OEM fork caps from a 2013 CB1100F, you may want to spring for the two orings as you hate to get that far, have one tear and be sitting there waiting for a replacement. They are cheap enough so if you’re worried buy them. Of you want to make the “kit” 100% reversible, either but another set of the Honda plastic fork spring spacers or some PVC pipe in the proper diameter. I think I paid like $30 an OEM fork cap (been a bunch of years, sorry), and I didn’t buy the orings and didn’t need them. The proper size PVC in a 2 foot section was like $5.
- Support the front of the bike off the ground in your choice of manor but be sure it’s stable, you want to load on the forks. Trust me on this, I tried to do one at a time on the side stand and it didn’t work. Now loosen the nut at the top of the fork and twist it off: Note that it’s under pressure and a very fine thread, when it comes loose it will “pop” off so have a towl on the tank and one in your hand to catch it.
- Once you have the cap off, compare the depth it goes into the fork tube to the adjustable one, it’s around 3/4” longer. You can either leave it as is and have 3/4” additional preload on the spring at rest or as i did, pull out the stock spacer and cut 3/4” off the tube. Or just measure the OD of the Honda spacer and buy some PVC as outlined earlier the proper length, I think it was 1 1/4” thick walled but measure to be sure.
- Reassemble everything as it came out and do the other side the same way. I ran maybe halfway of the preload travel as I’m heavy and it was great setup that’s worked fairly well.
- If you want a “phase 2”, especially if you’re not terribly heavy or aggressive, pull the forks, do a fork oil swap with the Ohlins stuff (I’ll look for the part number later), and enjoy, under $100 total.
- Phase 3 “budget” would be to add proper springs for your weight. So go to Race Tech’s website, put in your info and order fork springs matched to your weight, I think they are $125 or about there so $200 gets you the “ohlins” kit for 2/3 the Ohlins price, but using OEM pieces. The thing to remember when replacing springs/spacers is to verify the total length to be the same as the stock stuff; in other words, say the stock spring are like 20” with a 5” spacer you’d have 25” total. If your new springs are 22” you’d need a 3” spacer for the same total length. If you are cutting the spacer for new springs and the new fork caps you’d also minus the 3/4” the adjustable fork caps are longer so you’d have a 2 1/4” spacer. I hope that makes sense Don’t use my fork spring/spacer numbers as needs, I’m just using those as an example. And the “proper” fork springs can and will be a different length than stock so you will need to play with spacers with this route.
Or buy the Ohlins kit where everything is precut and ready to go, except the oil. I originally wrote this up so I wouldn’t have to remember the details, sorry this is a little scattered, but I know the recommended Ohlins oil is not a straight 20w according to their tech support guys. I’d say it’s probably more of a 10/15w and the stock Honda stuff is 10w so if you want to be frugal you could buy a good quality “standard” oil in 15w for $10 and be just fine. I swapped my stuff out at like 3,000 miles and the fluid was well used by that time so you’re not wasting the fluid or the money by changing it.
Hope this all helps. The are things you can do in different stages to make it affordable to do like buy the caps for the $75, run that a while and later buy the springs and oil and change those out.
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- Thread starter
- #8
- May 30, 2014
Thanks!
I have to swap oil this year anyway so might as well have a proper go while the forks are out of the bike.
J
I have to swap oil this year anyway so might as well have a proper go while the forks are out of the bike.
J
- May 21, 2016
@Brammers ,
@miweber929 coached me through it last summer. Piece of cake. Things to note (my opinion only):1. I had about 3000 miles on the bike with the original front setup. I have put over 1000 miles on it with the new setup, so I have enough miles to make some observations on the actual differences.
2. The original springs are progressive rate, the Ohlins are not. The progressive rate are (probably) a compromise between street, track and gereral liveabilty. (Mike can elaborate if he wants). The Ohlins setup is not only adjustable but does not seem as “squishy” in corners. We have a lot of mountain roads here and there are ample opportunities to push the bike. The OEM front suspension never felt like it was really sure what it wanted to do in the twisties. The Ohlins kit immediately firmed up the entire range and the bike now goes where you point it without any dead or flaccid spots.
I like Mike’s idea as well to do it on a budget. Regardless of if you build it or buy it, you should notice a significant difference in how the bike handles.
- Thread starter
- #10
- May 30, 2014
Followup question: flush forks before new oil or not?
If so, flush with what?
If so, flush with what?
- May 21, 2016
Probably not necessary. I drained the forks and let them sit upside down for a bit then wiped them out. Maybe Mike can elaborate. I know he was real specific on the amount of oil to put back in.
- May 3, 2015
you typically flush things with the same fluid you are going to fill it with.
wash out the contaminants and such, then let is drain a bit before putting in the measured amount.
wash out the contaminants and such, then let is drain a bit before putting in the measured amount.
- Thread starter
- #13
- May 30, 2014
That'll be expensive using ohlins oil! Lol
If you want to “flush” the system, drain the old oil out, buy some cheaper fork oil, use that for flushing and fill with Ohlins. You could do the whole solvent route and do a real flush but these forks are not real sophisticated inside so a good drain should be just fine.
@baugustine mentioned it, but when refilling you don’t care as much about quantity of oil you put in as you do the oil level in the fork tubes. It’s very precise and 10mm more or less height will make a marked difference in how the forks perform and how long your seals will last. It’s measuered from the top of the tube to the oil with a level, compressed fork and no fork springs in it. Or better yet, it’s in the service manual.
@baugustine mentioned it, but when refilling you don’t care as much about quantity of oil you put in as you do the oil level in the fork tubes. It’s very precise and 10mm more or less height will make a marked difference in how the forks perform and how long your seals will last. It’s measuered from the top of the tube to the oil with a level, compressed fork and no fork springs in it. Or better yet, it’s in the service manual.- May 16, 2017
I am going to do a budget job and fit the top adjusters as miweber advised and then upgrade to 20w oil plus an extra 25ml of oil and see how that performs.
- May 21, 2016
If I am reading this correctly, you are not changing the springs? If so, you are not doing the most important part. The adjusters and oil are nice but the big handling difference comes from a more performance-oriented spring. The progressive rate OEMs ones are a compromise to offer a cushier ride. If you do a lot of highway miles and not much cornering then they are fine. If you are trying to “tighten up” the handling then you won’t see much of a difference w/o doing the springs. My 2 cents only...
The springs will make a difference, but I think the ability to add some preload, especially if you are a “light” rider, will help along with the fluid. It’s a start and for the price of an oil change and adjusters, worth a shot because once you’ve done that work, swapping the springs and spacers is way easy. I know the front end is much better fully done but I’m not convinced it was the springs as much as the oil that made the difference after putting on a few miles.
For mine they sent 8.5kg springs vs. the 7.5kg they normally send and it’s just about right, bordering on slightly harsh at the end of the stroke. But these are budget valved forks so I’m not surprised that they can get a lithe vague feeling at an aggressive pace.
A @ADIOS600, if you are going the budget route, note what I said earlier about the Ohlins oil that they spec not really being a “true” 20w. Looking back through my invoices, 01316-01 would be the part number and it’s called #20, their 20w normal fork oil carries a different part number and from what I was told is different. There were a bunch of calls back and forth but I specifically remember addressing that and them telling me it’s different oil. Based on pouring it in, I’d say it’s closer to a 15w than 20w and arbitrarily adding 25mm of additional oil per side is probably not a great idea unless you really want the forks to be harsh and want to blow fork seals. I’d try the Ohlins recommended 140mm and if you want it firmer add 10mm to each leg and try it out.
You’ll be surprised how much 10mm will make a difference.
These are simply my thoughts and opinions as well. The Ohlins kit is a great addition but when you are bordering $300 for the entire setup, a ~$450 set of Matris cartridges seems like a better deal since they are fully adjustable. If it was more in the $200 range, I’m more apt to say save up and do that, even if they simply sent the proper fluid at $250 I’d be better with the price, but I think there are better options at better prices.
For mine they sent 8.5kg springs vs. the 7.5kg they normally send and it’s just about right, bordering on slightly harsh at the end of the stroke. But these are budget valved forks so I’m not surprised that they can get a lithe vague feeling at an aggressive pace.
A @ADIOS600, if you are going the budget route, note what I said earlier about the Ohlins oil that they spec not really being a “true” 20w. Looking back through my invoices, 01316-01 would be the part number and it’s called #20, their 20w normal fork oil carries a different part number and from what I was told is different. There were a bunch of calls back and forth but I specifically remember addressing that and them telling me it’s different oil. Based on pouring it in, I’d say it’s closer to a 15w than 20w and arbitrarily adding 25mm of additional oil per side is probably not a great idea unless you really want the forks to be harsh and want to blow fork seals. I’d try the Ohlins recommended 140mm and if you want it firmer add 10mm to each leg and try it out.
You’ll be surprised how much 10mm will make a difference.
These are simply my thoughts and opinions as well. The Ohlins kit is a great addition but when you are bordering $300 for the entire setup, a ~$450 set of Matris cartridges seems like a better deal since they are fully adjustable. If it was more in the $200 range, I’m more apt to say save up and do that, even if they simply sent the proper fluid at $250 I’d be better with the price, but I think there are better options at better prices.
- May 21, 2016
Thanks Mike for adding some good data to this discussion.
I realized I should probably clarify something I said above as it seems like Mike and I are not in alignment and we are very close in the advice we are offering up.
I spent several years SCCA racing and I am also ASE Master technician certified (including steering/suspension), all of it with cars, not motorcycles, so I have some first-hand knowledge on this topic.. The Physics is the same, namely how the suspension loads and unloads. I should have included braking and acceleration in the above comment, because handling and acceleration/braking are two sides of the same coin here.
Most modern automotive suspensions use gas or liquid-filled struts, which is a combination shock absorber and spring. The main job of the spring is to keep the most amount of tire on the pavement during cornering, acceleration and braking. The suspension loads and unloads during all of those events. The shock/strut portion is there to remove the residual oscillations in the spring when its compressed and released. One way to test for a worn shock/strut on a vehicle by pushing down on the front fender and watching the rebound. It the fender comes up and stays put the shock/strut is “absorbing” the recoils, which is what its supposed to do. If the fender bounces a few times the gas/oil component of the shock is failing and unable to absorb/dissipate the recoils. If you have ever seen the front of a vehicle with a slight bounce going down the road, that is the symptom of failed shock/strut.
That is what I was referring to above. On the motorcycle the springs are internal and work together with the oil to do two primary things: (1) absorb the recoil when a suspension is unloaded. (2) provide resistance when the suspension is loading up. Hard acceleration unloads the front, braking loads the front. Hard cornering loads and unloads the two sides but in different rates, depending on the speed, lean angle & track. All the above scenarios will have a recoil when the suspension settles.
The progressive rate spring have different load values by design so it works well in both highway riding (compresses easily to absorb the potholes, road crown, pavement variations) and then the compression gets stiffer as the spring gets towards the end of its travel, to avoid bottoming out (like in hard cornering or braking).
The adjuster changes the preload, which alters how quickly the spring starts to compress. More preload, and the spring will be stiffer as it already has some compression in its default state.
The oil works as part of the rebound process and the loading/unloading. Viscosity will make a difference and oil level will make a difference.
How you plan on using the bike will be the best determiner of the what path you should do. I like Mike’s suggestion on the budget build and think for someone who has the time and patience to put it together its a great solution. If you want something turn-Key out of the box, the Ohlins kit is ready and easy to install.
My personal experience with the Ohlins kit was it firmed up the suspension, and cornering and braking were both significantly improved. The freeway ride is stiffer, but that was a compromise I could live with.
Good luck in the upgrade and let us know how it goes!
I realized I should probably clarify something I said above as it seems like Mike and I are not in alignment and we are very close in the advice we are offering up.
I spent several years SCCA racing and I am also ASE Master technician certified (including steering/suspension), all of it with cars, not motorcycles, so I have some first-hand knowledge on this topic.. The Physics is the same, namely how the suspension loads and unloads. I should have included braking and acceleration in the above comment, because handling and acceleration/braking are two sides of the same coin here.
Most modern automotive suspensions use gas or liquid-filled struts, which is a combination shock absorber and spring. The main job of the spring is to keep the most amount of tire on the pavement during cornering, acceleration and braking. The suspension loads and unloads during all of those events. The shock/strut portion is there to remove the residual oscillations in the spring when its compressed and released. One way to test for a worn shock/strut on a vehicle by pushing down on the front fender and watching the rebound. It the fender comes up and stays put the shock/strut is “absorbing” the recoils, which is what its supposed to do. If the fender bounces a few times the gas/oil component of the shock is failing and unable to absorb/dissipate the recoils. If you have ever seen the front of a vehicle with a slight bounce going down the road, that is the symptom of failed shock/strut.
That is what I was referring to above. On the motorcycle the springs are internal and work together with the oil to do two primary things: (1) absorb the recoil when a suspension is unloaded. (2) provide resistance when the suspension is loading up. Hard acceleration unloads the front, braking loads the front. Hard cornering loads and unloads the two sides but in different rates, depending on the speed, lean angle & track. All the above scenarios will have a recoil when the suspension settles.
The progressive rate spring have different load values by design so it works well in both highway riding (compresses easily to absorb the potholes, road crown, pavement variations) and then the compression gets stiffer as the spring gets towards the end of its travel, to avoid bottoming out (like in hard cornering or braking).
The adjuster changes the preload, which alters how quickly the spring starts to compress. More preload, and the spring will be stiffer as it already has some compression in its default state.
The oil works as part of the rebound process and the loading/unloading. Viscosity will make a difference and oil level will make a difference.
How you plan on using the bike will be the best determiner of the what path you should do. I like Mike’s suggestion on the budget build and think for someone who has the time and patience to put it together its a great solution. If you want something turn-Key out of the box, the Ohlins kit is ready and easy to install.
My personal experience with the Ohlins kit was it firmed up the suspension, and cornering and braking were both significantly improved. The freeway ride is stiffer, but that was a compromise I could live with.
Good luck in the upgrade and let us know how it goes!
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- May 16, 2017
Thanks for you're very honest and informative reply.
- May 16, 2017
I didn't realise the standard oem springs were the progressive type ?