All 650's So.. my bike fell over while I was on vacation..

[Brent Derocher]

Hi all, I’m brand new to the forums and only a year into motorcycle riding - take it easy on me (or dont). I’m relatively mechanically inclined, but brand new to motorcycles.. so I have a lot to learn. I’ll try not to make this too long, but I want to make sure I catch you all up to speed.
So, long story short - I went on a trip out of state and didn’t want my motorcycle in plain site, so I moved it from its normal parking spot to around back in my yard. The ground seemed pretty solid, but clearly it wasn’t - I came back to my bike on its side. It could have been like this anywhere from 1-4 days.

Initial things I noticed:
-oil was low.
-coolant was low.
-white exhaust smoke (coolant burning)

I called the dealer who recommended I:
-top off fluids
-clear out air box of any oil and replace filter
-burn off coolant in exhaust system
-I did all these things myself.

Motorcycle ran great after that.. until 2 weeks later (today) where the clutch wasn’t hooking up as normal. Engine would rev out fine and sounded good, but less power was being delivered to the wheel. I suspected clutch was slipping but wasn’t sure why as everything was adjusted properly, and the motorcycle only has 3000 miles on it.

Before giving up and briit to the shop I wanted to change the oil to see if there was anything suspect there. From the little I know, any changes to the specially formulated oil can cause the clutch to slip. Low and behold, the oil is lightly milky.. coolant hanging out where it shouldn’t be.

(Note: coolant level has not changed in 2 weeks since I topped it off)

My initial questions:
- is there any passage way in motorcycles for coolant to mix with oil when a motorcycle has fallen over for an extended period of time? (like a gravity actuated gate of some kind).. this feels unlikely, but “yes” would be a lovely answer.
-any ideas on what it could be (head gasket?)
-any suggestions on next course of action? I’m planning on flushing oil, replacing filter, running the bike for 100 miles or so and then repeating that process. After that I’m planning on checking dipstick religiously for signs of milky-ness.

thank you!

 

[Atucker]

Welcome to team USA Brent. Sorry to hear about the bike. That's a terrible surprise to return home to after a vacation.

The coolant and oil should be mechanically separated so not sure how they would be mixing unless there was an issue such as the head gasket you mentioned. Hopefully this isn't the case. The oil change and monitor method seams like a good place to start. If it's still mixing I would suggest pressure testing the system to see if it's mixing somewhere internally.

Good luck with the investigation. Keep us posted on the result.

 

[Brammers]

I'd like to see a pic of how "milky" the oil is. It could be condensation from sitting or not having had a "good long run".

Change oil/filter and monitor is a good plan. Take the bike for some long runs (30 mins+) to get everything up to temperature as well!

Short turnovers can get water into the oil as the crankcase is open to the atmosphere via the airbox.

J

 

[Goblin]

Welcome to the club Brent. And yeah start with what Brammers and Atucker said. Good luck 👍

 

[miweber929]

I'd like to see a pic of how "milky" the oil is. It could be condensation from sitting or not having had a "good long run".

Change oil/filter and monitor is a good plan. Take the bike for some long runs (30 mins+) to get everything up to temperature as well!

Short turnovers can get water into the oil as the crankcase is open to the atmosphere via the airbox.

J

@Brammers is spot on (go figure). The one place where oil and coolant run close to each other is in the water pump area where a single seal separates the two from mixing. It’s unlikely, but not unheard of, for coolant to slip past the seal, due to the circumstances your bike was in. I bet it’s moisture, especially if it rained while you were gone.

I would bet my next paycheck that there is no permanent damage to the bike and that the head gasket is just fine. There is no reason a bike laying on its side would damage a head gasket that’s subjected to the loads it is on a daily basis.

Change your oil, run the bike a good while, the 100 miles you are talking about is probably good, and change it again. Then check the rest of your fluids (brake fluid comes to mind) and enjoy the bike having learned a good lesson on how to park the bike on unstable ground!!!!

 

[Brent Derocher]

I'd like to see a pic of how "milky" the oil is. It could be condensation from sitting or not having had a "good long run".

Change oil/filter and monitor is a good plan. Take the bike for some long runs (30 mins+) to get everything up to temperature as well!

Short turnovers can get water into the oil as the crankcase is open to the atmosphere via the airbox.

J

I sadly don’t have any pics of the oil, but I could definitely be misdiagnosing what I saw. I haven’t taken the bike out for a long run (>45 minutes) in a while.
The oil was a light cloudy brown (not the nice golden when it went in, or the dark color oil normally is when it comes out of a car). The best I can describe it is, it looked like normal lightly used oil, with some white cloudy-ness mixed in.

additionally, as the last of the oil ran out - some sort of substance which didn’t mix with the oil dribbled out for a while and ran down my oil catch pan as separate beads of fluid.

My words definitely don’t match the helpfulness of a picture. I’ll keep ya’ll posted. Thanks for your input.

 

[Brent Derocher]

Welcome to team USA Brent. Sorry to hear about the bike. That's a terrible surprise to return home to after a vacation.

The coolant and oil should be mechanically separated so not sure how they would be mixing unless there was an issue such as the head gasket you mentioned. Hopefully this isn't the case. The oil change and monitor method seams like a good place to start. If it's still mixing I would suggest pressure testing the system to see if it's mixing somewhere internally.

Good luck with the investigation. Keep us posted on the result.

Makes sense - I’ll keep you posted after work today. Hopefully the oil change helps the bike hook up when I open the throttle up and I can just monitor oil condition after that 🤞🏽

 

[Brent Derocher]

@Brammers is spot on (go figure). The one place where oil and coolant run close to each other is in the water pump area where a single seal separates the two from mixing. It’s unlikely, but not unheard of, for coolant to slip past the seal, due to the circumstances your bike was in. I bet it’s moisture, especially if it rained while you were gone.

I would bet my next paycheck that there is no permanent damage to the bike and that the head gasket is just fine. There is no reason a bike laying on its side would damage a head gasket that’s subjected to the loads it is on a daily basis.

Change your oil, run the bike a good while, the 100 miles you are talking about is probably good, and change it again. Then check the rest of your fluids (brake fluid comes to mind) and enjoy the bike having learned a good lesson on how to park the bike on unstable ground!!!!

Lesson definitely learned. I left thinking “I’m not one of those chumps who leaves their bike somewhere to fall over, I understand gravity” and came back to realize I was a chump.

thanks for your input.

 

[GPJake]

The oil was a light cloudy brown (not the nice golden when it went in, or the dark color oil normally is when it comes out of a car). The best I can describe it is, it looked like normal lightly used oil, with some white cloudy-ness mixed in.

I wouldn't worry until you get a decent run & temps up (as mentioned). If you aren't always looking at your oil, it can be surprising how cloudy it can look sometimes.

 

[Brent Derocher]

Hi All,

Sorry for the radio silence. So.. I finally gave up after an oil flush didn't alleviate the problem.

Turns out clutch plates are scorched and need to be replaced. As I mentioned in my original post, I am a new rider so I'm trying to figure out what habbits I could possibly have that would cause the clutch to go out at 3000 miles. Any ideas? I dont ride very hard, or launch the bike hard, I've missed a shift here and there, but nothing consistent or crazy. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Also, to add injury to insult, my bike is recently out of warranty and I've been quoted $1400 in OEM parts alone. Fingers crossed for some sort of goodwill extension to the warranty. Do you all have any idea why this clutch is so expensive?

 

[Brammers]

Now it's been a while since I read the clutch part of the service manual, but I'm pretty sure the parts required for a clutch rebuild should be less than $200.

Oil ($30?), clutch plates ($80) and a tube of sealant ($20) for the engine cover. That's it. Plus labour.

Get a second quote!

J

 

[Brent Derocher]

That's definitely the price range I was expecting. I've called 3 different dealerships and each parts guys was like "woah, thats the most expensive one I've seen" and then quoted me something like $1340 for parts. None of them have been able to tell me why its so expensive, but have confirmed that that is the pricing for the part from Honda.

 

[Brammers]

There might be a difference if its a slipper clutch, I've got no experience with those parts.

J

 

[JRinKtown]

Your dealer is likely wanting to replace the entire clutch assembly, not just the plates. Most people just replace friction plates unless the steel plates show signs they should be replaced. If they do, then replace all the plates. A set of plates are under $100. You don't likely need a complete clutch assembly which is much more involved. That hardly ever happens.
Here's a link to your clutch assembly breakdown with all the prices for OEM parts: 2020 CB650R Clutch Assembly . Note #6 is the disc set.

 

[Brent Derocher]

Your dealer is likely wanting to replace the entire clutch assembly, not just the plates. Most people just replace friction plates unless the steel plates show signs they should be replaced. If they do, then replace all the plates. A set of plates are under $100. You don't likely need a complete clutch assembly which is much more involved. That hardly ever happens.
Here's a link to your clutch assembly breakdown with all the prices for OEM parts: 2020 CB650R Clutch Assembly . Note #6 is the disc set.

I thought this too originally - but at the other dealers I contacted I specifically asked for plates and springs and that returned the crazy high price.

I'm starting to think the dealers may have some sort of glitch in their system.. I called one dealer who originally quoted me the ~$1400 price for the clutch plates, the employee there said he'd look into it for me and see if he could figure out why it was so much. He just called me back and said he doesn't know what's going on, but he is able to get the parts shipped to them for just over $55 despite the quoted ~$1400 when he first looked it up. Does $55 sound closer to the correct price?

 

[miweber929]

I thought this too originally - but at the other dealers I contacted I specifically asked for plates and springs and that returned the crazy high price.

I'm starting to think the dealers may have some sort of glitch in their system.. I called one dealer who originally quoted me the ~$1400 price for the clutch plates, the employee there said he'd look into it for me and see if he could figure out why it was so much. He just called me back and said he doesn't know what's going on, but he is able to get the parts shipped to them for just over $55 despite the quoted ~$1400 when he first looked it up. Does $55 sound closer to the correct price?

It does. Someone asked a while ago about 650R clutch parts and I looked it up to see $1400 as well and figured there was some weird glitch as well. Looks like Honda fixed it.