Lemmy from Revzilla's LiveWire review

[Devilsfan]

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tre...tm_content=B&utm_term=Common Tread | Combined

Just read this. Good? Bad? Not sure the world is ready for the Live Wire yet. We shall see.

 

[miweber929]

89 mile range if you ride on the highway, over $30k MSRP.

That’s a big nope from me.

 

[skeletor]

I'm just going to get a horse.

 

[Devilsfan]

Although I have limited (VERY LIMITED!) experience with the racing aspect, I would think the weight would also be a turn-off, yes?

 

[Jerry]

This isn't a race bike.

Anyway, it's only a good thing Harley is getting involved in this for multiple reasons.
People tend to be a bit negative about electric bikes but they forget it's only been a few years since electric bikes have been available to the public. ICE engines have been around and developed for over 100 years.

 

[baugustine]

I'm just going to get a horse.

An excellent idea, indeed...

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-shelby-gt500

 

[Jerry]

That's a horse with rocket engines strapped to its legs though

 

[skeletor]

An excellent idea, indeed...

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-shelby-gt500

If we're picking cars:

 

[Jerry]

Oh! I only just noticed there's also a car in that pic!

 

[GPJake]

89 mile range if you ride on the highway, over $30k MSRP.

That’s a big nope from me.

I'm with Mike here.

I love the thought & progression of 'lectric bikes.
And I love that Harley is getting into the field. Kick folks like Zero in the ass & let them know they can't cruise to the finish line alone for a free win.

But - electric just isn't there yet.
The simplest thing I can state is this: just think of how much ICE bike you can get for $30k. Or, hell, how MANY ICE bikes you can get for that.

Electric is the future. It's promising. It's radically different and cool.
But $30k for somewhere between 70-150 miles of range? Pu-lease...

 

[skeletor]

After charging at a standard house outlet for 1 hour, you can travel about 13 miles.
Not too useful if there's a zombie apocalypse.

 

[Jerry]

I'm with Mike here.

I love the thought & progression of 'lectric bikes.
And I love that Harley is getting into the field. Kick folks like Zero in the ass & let them know they can't cruise to the finish line alone for a free win.

But - electric just isn't there yet.
The simplest thing I can state is this: just think of how much ICE bike you can get for $30k. Or, hell, how MANY ICE bikes you can get for that.

Electric is the future. It's promising. It's radically different and cool.
But $30k for somewhere between 70-150 miles of range? Pu-lease...

Agreed with all you've said. Electric is mostly just for early adopters now. But we'll get there eventually, look at the progression electric cars made. And the more industry players involved, the faster well get there.

 

[skeletor]

Uh oh, it might be leaking electrons!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/harley-davidson-halts-electric-motorcycle-production-11571073048

 

[Devilsfan]

Uh oh, it might be leaking electrons!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/harley-davidson-halts-electric-motorcycle-production-11571073048

Yeah...I'm thinking this is HD's way of skating out of this "idea". How the hell are they going to sell a $30,000 motorcycle that, albeit fast, has a 90 mile top distance before an 8-hour recharge?!?! It was a great idea...until it wasn't. Yet Harley kept dumping money into it and now they're stuck because it ain't sellin'!
So, IMO, they claim non-functioning.

 

[miweber929]

Yeah...I'm thinking this is HD's way of skating out of this "idea". How the hell are they going to sell a $30,000 motorcycle that, albeit fast, has a 90 mile top distance before an 8-hour recharge?!?! It was a great idea...until it wasn't. Yet Harley kept dumping money into it and now they're stuck because it ain't sellin'!
So, IMO, they claim non-functioning.

No, not it; they have a legit issue with the charging that they are trying to solve and the bike is selling just fine right now so this is a blow to them and something that they will to trying to fix ASAP to get it back in the market by spring.

A good friend of mine knows several former coworkers who now work for Harley and we were talking a few weeks ago about this bike and the hurdles they’ve had and will have to address. I’ve done a little more research and rethought some of my personal views on the bike and while I still think it’s way overpriced, for a lot of riders, it’s a decent choice. Recharging is an issue, but most riders, whether you choose to believe it or not, don’t ride more than 100 miles at a crack so a 90 mile range at freeway speeds isn’t all that bad or that limiting. And there are Harley shops everywhere so if they all start installing quick chargers, range does sort of become a non-issue because you know how much Harley guys like yo shop at Haley shops. .

We’ll see how this shakes out, it’s a big deal they will spend years getting over; even if it turns out to be minor it will be something that will haunt this bike it’s entire model life. They are not stupid enough to tarnish something they spent this much time, effort and money on and potentially ruin future buyers opinions because they had cold feet. That’s ridiculous to even suggest that, imho, because they believe this is their future and are working on it accordingly.

 

[baugustine]

Interesting story. As someone who works in the transportation industry I’ll add some “Inside baseball” comments.

Electric powertrains are the current Beanie Babies, Tickle Me Elmos and Air Jordan's. Everyone wants one and very few know why other than they keep hearing about it and don’t want to be “that guy/girl” who isn’t sitting at the cool table at lunch.

GMs EV1 was a flop, it was an early adopter and the technology was very immature. The Nissan Leaf was/is awkward. Tesla kicked the door wide open with the Model S, but there is a finite number of buyers who can purchase a $100K boutique vehicle. (Most Tesla owners also own another family vehicle or SUV).

The real, unspoken issue is battery technology today. It has not progressed to a point where range anxiety goes away AND it’s affordable in a mass production environment. That was one of the lessons Tesla learned with the Model 3, advertised as the "people's car" for $35,000; very late to production, massive QC issues and mid $40's starting price for a stripper once they finally started making them in the tent in Freemont.

A second, and equally problematic issue is the fragility of the electric grid, at least in the US. Rolling blackouts in CA in the summer are normal, and that is with less than 5% of the 25 million registered vehicles needing to be plugged in.

Experts from utility companies now are saying we are 15 years away from being able to manage capacity requirements. This will be fun to watch. See page 7 from this SAE magazine, August 2017

 

[Devilsfan]

No, not it; they have a legit issue with the charging that they are trying to solve and the bike is selling just fine right now so this is a blow to them and something that they will to trying to fix ASAP to get it back in the market by spring.

I call BS! If these things were "selling just fine" anywhere I'd see them here on Florida or California. I HAVEN'T SEEN ONE LIVE WIRE ANYWHERE here in Florida!

Harley's been down for at least 3 straight quarters, that's no secret. Like their Street 500 and 750 models, they tanked - plain and simple! I don't wish anything bad for this company but I will always question their decisions and wonder why they did _____. But this Live Wire...it just ain't ready to be a thing that's going to sell unless they cut that price tag by at least half and they, obviously get whatever issue they're having fixed.

We’ll see how this shakes out, it’s a big deal they will spend years getting over; even if it turns out to be minor it will be something that will haunt this bike it’s entire model life. They are not stupid enough to tarnish something they spent this much time, effort and money on and potentially ruin future buyers opinions because they had cold feet. That’s ridiculous to even suggest that, imho, because they believe this is their future and are working on it accordingly.

Has nothing to do with getting cold feet. They have to pander to their stock holders and, right now, they ain't doing it! They have a big push overseas and they seem to be making their mark over in Europe but that's with gasoline bikes.
Will they totally ditch the LiveWire? Probably not but they better come up with something different if they want to compete. Bottom line, it's a great idea and may be the future but all of the Japanese companies have been sitting back watching HD spend their money. And when the market is ready for it I have a feeling the Japanese bikes will come out with a better, cheaper alternative to the Live Wire and crush HD's dreams in this area.

 

[miweber929]

I call BS! If these things were "selling just fine" anywhere I'd see them here on Florida or California. I HAVEN'T SEEN ONE LIVE WIRE ANYWHERE here in Florida!

Harley's been down for at least 3 straight quarters, that's no secret. Like their Street 500 and 750 models, they tanked - plain and simple! I don't wish anything bad for this company but I will always question their decisions and wonder why they did _____. But this Live Wire...it just ain't ready to be a thing that's going to sell unless they cut that price tag by at least half and they, obviously get whatever issue they're having fixed.




Has nothing to do with getting cold feet. They have to pander to their stock holders and, right now, they ain't doing it! They have a big push overseas and they seem to be making their mark over in Europe but that's with gasoline bikes.
Will they totally ditch the LiveWire? Probably not but they better come up with something different if they want to compete. Bottom line, it's a great idea and may be the future but all of the Japanese companies have been sitting back watching HD spend their money. And when the market is ready for it I have a feeling the Japanese bikes will come out with a better, cheaper alternative to the Live Wire and crush HD's dreams in this area.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but they were just released to the public in limited numbers. Just because you’ve not seen one doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I’ve yet to see an MV Agusta on the road but know they sell. Same thing with the Ducati V4. And Aprilias.

Hate on Harley and the bike all you want, but there’s much more to this whole thing than the fact it’s an expensive Harley Davidson. They have way too much riding on this to fake it’s own death, that’d be asinine on their part and they are just not that stupid.

 

[Devilsfan]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but they were just released to the public in limited numbers. Just because you’ve not seen one doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I’ve yet to see an MV Agusta on the road but know they sell. Same thing with the Ducati V4. And Aprilias.

Hate on Harley and the bike all you want, but there’s much more to this whole thing than the fact it’s an expensive Harley Davidson. They have way too much riding on this to fake it’s own death, that’d be asinine on their part and they are just not that stupid.

I'm not hating on Harley but I bust their chops like many...because it's fun! And many of my Harley-owning friends also make fun of the machine they own!

You said they are "selling just fine". Do you have the numbers to back this up? Not asking to be an asshole but would love to see their numbers on units sold. I just went to the Cotee River bike fest this weekend...walked up and down the streets and not one Live Wire! Daytona Bikefest this coming weekend and I have a feeling there won't be many Live Wire's there either. But I'll see a ton of Road Glides and Street Glides up and down A-1.

As for your MV Agusta and Ducati V4's...sure they sell but I'm willing to bet they're selling WAY MORE in Europe than in the USA. Therefore, there's limited models here in the states. I remember when I got my CTX and got on their forum. Everyone was saying how well the bikes were selling...based on the fact that THEY HAD ONE! Turns out, a great motorcycle but not huge units sold.

Unless there's something going on in the Asian market that I'm unaware of I just can't believe they're a hot seller. I applaud HD for venturing out into areas yet explored and I think it was exactly what HD needed to do when they started the Live Wire project. I just think they should have treaded lightly before they dumped a ton of money into it. Will it sting Harley Davidson? Sure but it's "Harley Davidson" and they're pull through like always.

 

[baugustine]

@Devilsfan HD also has a looming problem of their core customer base aging. Think Lincoln. The LiveWire was (in part) an attempt I think to attract younger buyers into the fold. As with Tesla, price points mean a lot to most buyers. A $30K motorcycle to a Millennial living in his parents basement with $200K of student loans is most likely not feasible. The over 55 crowd is not exactly running (or hobbling) to purchase anything electric and most likely will not be any time soon.