CBR650F Cluster shutting off when starter switch is pressed

[baugustine]

Just to referee this one a tad…

The actual State-Of-Charge (SOC) will be the determiner of whether or not it runs with a bad battery. I replaced a battery a little over a year ago that would crank the engine but didn’t have enough voltage to fire the coils or injectors. That replacement battery died recently at a gas station. Bike started and ran, pulled into the station then would not crank enough to start. I jump started it and rode 2 hours home. (Then replaced it).

Bottom line: if you remove the battery from a running bike, you will lose the power and ground to the ECM, which powers the coils, injectors and fuel pump. The correct way to test it is with either a carbon pile load tester or a capacitance tester, both of which are normally available at a store that sells vehicle batteries and/or an auto parts store.

If lights are blinking on the dash, that is an indicator the cluster voltage is below 10.5v DC, which points to the root cause of your problem: the battery needs to be tested for DC output and CCA.

 

[Brammers]

I disagree: The bike runs a stator, not an alternator, that doesn't provide enough power to run the bike on its own. They are similar but not exactly the same thing as an alternator; a car, however, will run without the battery. The battery is an integral part of the circuit and needs to be in and working for the bike to run. You can try it, disconnect the negative cable and the bike will die.

If you have a dead battery, the bike will charge it, however if you have a bad battery, like a bad cell or something that KILLS the battery, it won't run even if jump started once the "good" battery is removed.



I agree with this, though. Classic symptoms of a bad cell in the battery.

So if you jumpered the circuit and bump started the bike without a battery you're saying it won't run.

I've had other bike that ran fine with no battery in... I assume they were all stator based?

The "alternator" as Honda calls it is good for 360w on the 650. Surely enough to run the bike and charge a battery?

J

 

[KidCBR]

Just hooked up a volt to the battery. Its sitting at 10.86 volts. When I turn the key as though I want to start it, it drops down to 0.33 volts. Same whether the ignition switch is on or off. Its as though it isnt being charged. Gonna throw it on my charger and try it on one of the other bikes. I dont know about this specific bike... but I had a 96 fireblade that was running solely on the battery at one point and even at 9.50 volts I would hear some kind of click when trying to start it. Even this 650 made the clicks with the old battery at less than 10 volts. Thats why I had to buy a new battery a few months ago. I really dont think its the battery. But thats why I am here.

 

[miweber929]

So if you jumpered the circuit and bump started the bike without a battery you're saying it won't run.

I've had other bike that ran fine with no battery in... I assume they were all stator based?

I am, that has been my experience with anything since the 80's that is "stator" based, certainly anything with FI and a CPU based ECU and CANBUS electronics system. Cars, which have a true alternator, yes, will run without a battery once started.

The "alternator" as Honda calls it is good for 360w on the 650. Surely enough to run the bike and charge a battery?

It is interesting that they call it an "alternator cover" and talk about an "alternator" cord but the actual unit itself they call the stator:

Honda 31120-MKN-D11 - STATOR : Babbitts Online

www.babbittsonline.com

I'm just saying there is a difference between an alternator system and a stator, and most of it has to do with the ability to run without a battery once started. I'd say try it and prove to me that I am full of it.

 

[miweber929]

Just hooked up a volt to the battery. Its sitting at 10.86 volts. When I turn the key as though I want to start it, it drops down to 0.33 volts. Same whether the ignition switch is on or off. Its as though it isnt being charged. Gonna throw it on my charger and try it on one of the other bikes. I dont know about this specific bike... but I had a 96 fireblade that was running solely on the battery at one point and even at 9.50 volts I would hear some kind of click when trying to start it. Even this 650 made the clicks with the old battery at less than 10 volts. Thats why I had to buy a new battery a few months ago. I really dont think its the battery. But thats why I am here.

This is a bike with an FI system, and a CPU based electronics system, they will not run, and definitely not run well, with a flat battery. Anything under 11.8 volts is considered a "dead" battery so your 10.86 volts proves you have a bunk battery and it's not charging for some reason.

Charge the battery and check out your charging system. Then report back on your results. Your 96 'Blade was carbed and had a very archaic electrical system. Nothing wrong with that but 2 different bikes altogether.

 

[KidCBR]

but is it normal at 10.86 volts to have NO headlight when the key is turned? Even a dim one?

 

[baugustine]

@KidCBR you can Google this and get a deeper dive but this chart is pretty close to accurate.

 

[KidCBR]

@KidCBR you can Google this and get a deeper dive but this chart is pretty close to accurate.

View attachment 11288

I appreciate this but even at lower voltage on this very bike I got clicks and a dim headlight and the fuel injection would still prime as well as the cluster light up with the last dying battery when trying to start it. Something else is wrong.

 

[miweber929]

but is it normal at 10.86 volts to have NO headlight when the key is turned? Even a dim one?

Possibly. Depends on if your battery is flat, dead or bad. I no longer gave a 650F so I can’t tell you for sure but I do know a lot of bikes won’t immediately turn the headlight on when the key is turned on. Some wait until you try to start.

I appreciate this but even at lower voltage on this very bike I got clicks and a dim headlight and the fuel injection would still prime as well as the cluster light up with the last dying battery when trying to start it. Something else is wrong.

We’re all trying to help. You can keep saying it’s something else but until you have a known good, fully charged battery, you’re guessing. Already we know you have a charging issue if your battery is that low.

Take your battery to a Batteries Plus or other battery testing location and get it load tested. I doubt it will pass.

I’m out, we’re trying to help, you won’t listen. So good luck to you.

 

[KidCBR]

Possibly. Depends on if your battery is flat, dead or bad. I no longer gave a 650F so I can’t tell you for sure but I do know a lot of bikes won’t immediately turn the headlight on when the key is turned on. Some wait until you try to start.


We’re all trying to help. You can keep saying it’s something else but until you have a known good, fully charged battery, you’re guessing. Already we know you have a charging issue if your battery is that low.

Take your battery to a Batteries Plus or other battery testing location and get it load tested. I doubt it will pass.

I’m out, we’re trying to help, you won’t listen. So good luck to you.

No worries mate. I tried the battery on my other cbr. Its a 500 2013 so it should be close enough in modernity to replicate the problem. Before I even charged the battery the cluster came on and upon trying to start I got clicks. Battery should be near done charging in a minute. What I'm gonna try is once its full again testing the voltage on the 650 at like 5000 rpm(if it will start). I would think it should jump to like 14-15 volts if its in fact being charged by the stator. that should tell me if my theory is correct. I suck with electrical... but I know enough to know SOMETHING will light up even at 10.86 unless its an absolutely completely dead battery. Plus my battery charger would tell me "bad batt" I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just ruling out things. my cbr500 acts just as I would expect. Dim headlight, cluster on, clicking when attempting to start. I bet all my bikes if I charge the battery and put it on that bike it will fire right up and most likely charge it as its supposed to. Rather than do that I will test the voltage immediately at 5000 rpm(in case it really is a bum battery) Not hatin on ya. But just like all of you... I have some thoughts of my own as to whats goin on here. I really appreciate your input thus far. I figure with enough minds on the problem eventually it will show itself. I just cant shake the feeling that the bike isnt charging the battery. I mean how else could my voltage be low like that if the bike were charging the battery? I hate electrical -.-

 

[baugustine]

@KidCBR Right now you are your own worst enemy on this issue. There is no need to rev it to 5000rpm to test the charging circuit. You should have at least 13.6V DC off idle, if not there is something wrong with it. Electrical is not complicated, and it has a set of rules that are immutable. In this case, if your battery has less than 12.0V DC it is SEVERELY discharged. Unexpected things WILL occur at 10.5v DC.

Fully charge the battery on a 2amp charger for 6 hours and test for both static voltage and CCA. That is the only surefire way to know if you have something else going on. If the battery tests OK, then put your DVOM on the terminals while running and check the charging voltage.

 

[MDM650R]

Your upgraded blinkers.. Are they LED? Do they need special relays fitted to match? Perhaps this could develop an issue?

Just a shot in the dark, just try and think what has changed on your bike since it's been having issues.

 

[miweber929]

No worries mate. I tried the battery on my other cbr. Its a 500 2013 so it should be close enough in modernity to replicate the problem. Before I even charged the battery the cluster came on and upon trying to start I got clicks. Battery should be near done charging in a minute. What I'm gonna try is once its full again testing the voltage on the 650 at like 5000 rpm(if it will start). I would think it should jump to like 14-15 volts if its in fact being charged by the stator. that should tell me if my theory is correct. I suck with electrical... but I know enough to know SOMETHING will light up even at 10.86 unless its an absolutely completely dead battery. Plus my battery charger would tell me "bad batt" I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just ruling out things. my cbr500 acts just as I would expect. Dim headlight, cluster on, clicking when attempting to start. I bet all my bikes if I charge the battery and put it on that bike it will fire right up and most likely charge it as its supposed to. Rather than do that I will test the voltage immediately at 5000 rpm(in case it really is a bum battery) Not hatin on ya. But just like all of you... I have some thoughts of my own as to whats goin on here. I really appreciate your input thus far. I figure with enough minds on the problem eventually it will show itself. I just cant shake the feeling that the bike isnt charging the battery. I mean how else could my voltage be low like that if the bike were charging the battery? I hate electrical -.-

Cbr650r / Cb650r service manual (oem)

Oem service manual... The must have item before any DIY work is undertaken!

650f.bike

Read checking the charging system in here and follow the directions.

 

[KidCBR]

Cbr650r / Cb650r service manual (oem)

Oem service manual... The must have item before any DIY work is undertaken!

650f.bike

Read checking the charging system in here and follow the directions.

Went to run that test. Battery reading 13.15 volts. Turn the key and not even a cluster light. Tried a couple times and one time the cluster came on like 7 seconds after turning the key? Battery fully charged. Put it on my 500 and it fired right up. Im not a master mechanic... I AM however an expert IT technician. One of the first rules is "try it on another unit"... This battery is acting as it should. After running my 500 for like 10 minutes I tested the voltage again. 13.14 volts.

 

[baugustine]

You have to now check voltage at the cluster. (A) check the connector for corrosion and that it’s securely snapped in. (B) get out your DVOM and test several places from the battery back to the cluster, you should have the same voltage at the positive terminal as at the power feed into the cluster, Also do a voltage drop test on the ground circuit at the cluster. if you have battery voltage going in and no stray voltage on the ground then the cluster is failing internally.

 

[KidCBR]

You have to now check voltage at the cluster. (A) check the connector for corrosion and that it’s securely snapped in. (B) get out your DVOM and test several places from the battery back to the cluster, you should have the same voltage at the positive terminal as at the power feed into the cluster, Also do a voltage drop test on the ground circuit at the cluster. if you have battery voltage going in and no stray voltage on the ground then the cluster is failing internally.

And that will cause the bike to not run?

 

[MDM650R]

You're dead right that your 650 may not be charging, and the issue may be deeper than the battery.. but the fact of it is, a 10.86V battery is gonna do bugger all.

Like you say, "try it on another unit" - my recommendation would be to actually run the 'dead' battery in question on your 500. Run it for a few days, park it for a few days, then test the battery. That will fully rule out if your 650 if failing to charge, or if you just have a temperamental battery.

Otherwise at this point mate, just take it to a mechanic.

 

[KidCBR]

You're dead right that your 650 may not be charging, and the issue may be deeper than the battery.. but the fact of it is, a 10.86V battery is gonna do bugger all.

Like you say, "try it on another unit" - my recommendation would be to actually run the 'dead' battery in question on your 500. Run it for a few days, park it for a few days, then test the battery. That will fully rule out if your 650 if failing to charge, or if you just have a temperamental battery.

Otherwise at this point mate, just take it to a mechanic.

Good advice.

 

[Brammers]

First off, you need to find where any wiring fault may lay.

If the loom has been damaged all sorts of things could be wrong that the ecu won't like and will cause it to not fire the engine.

The wiring diagram would be a worthwhile read at this point as well to get a logical layout of what you're chasing.

J

 

[baugustine]

And that will cause the bike to not run?

If you have a voltage drop at the cluster you may also have the same voltage drop at the ECM. not enough volts at the ECM will certainly cause a no start. Per my advice above, start checking power at the battery and work your way down the schematic per @Brammers . Check connectors, pinched wires, corrosion, etc.