2018 First 300 miles

BamaCBR · Mar 5, 2018

Having owned a couple of the higher end of Honda's CBR's I am not disappointed with the 18 CBR650F but every bike has it's quirks. Still being in the break in period I expect some of the vibrations to settle down further on. The screen as reviewed by everyone is out of date and just sad. Simple and it works so kudos to Honda. My biggest complaint however is the gearing! I'm 220lb and this thing runs 5500-6000k at 70-80 in sixth. This thing rides the power band all day and I find that unsettling as it doesn't leave much room to redline at 11/12k. Seeing as my sprockets are brand new I won't be replacing them right away.

All in all the bike is a fair middle weight sport tourer and I'm happy with it. Many upgrades to come so I will keep you posted.

Duncan · Mar 5, 2018

top gear is a funny one. 60-70 is just off the cam and 70-80 is just on it so it responds quite well.
it's still good for 155MPH by 11k.

I think it's a size and power thing. Honda still has the engine spin because it labours in 6th below 4000rpm. where as above 5000rpm it will respond without the need for a gear change. the need. I spend a lot of time in peak hour traffic on freeways and roll on and off from 70 down to 40 in 6th, because i'm a bit lazy at times.
260lbs and 6'5" so it knows i'm there.

I did get a CBR600R front sprocket because of bad stock control, made the bike really heavy from a stand still and it really appreciated more gear changing to compensate for the slight change in final drive ratio. would given me higher top speed also, only about 10mph. it did not have the pickup of the stock gearing.

I don't think marketing does the bike justice. a few articles tout the link to the old detuned 600RR that was the 600F and that ours has 50 more cc but, being euro4 there is 20 less hp, the engine has less rpm and the chassis has less fancy bits. that being said it's a solid sports tourer with a relaxed engine with a simple layout.
I have quite a few km on mine and it's going very well with by the book servicing and no mods.

Jerry · Mar 6, 2018

The 20hp loss compared to the 600F4i is more due to Honda adapting the bike for A2 license compatibility and sacrificing peak performance in favor of low/mid-range torque than it is due to Euro4

Brammers · Mar 6, 2018

A power commander and exhaust puts a lot of that 20bhp back.

J

Duncan · Mar 6, 2018

Jerry said:
The 20hp loss compared to the 600F4i is more due to Honda adapting the bike for A2 license compatibility and sacrificing peak performance in favor of low/mid-range torque than it is due to Euro4

I find this intriguing,
In looking at the spec, 2 big factors show a reason for a reduced power output. 1st is the increased stroke. this impacts the motor by increasing the acceleration on the piston and thus the stress. to compensate the RPM needs to be dropped. in dropping RPM you drop power because power is a function of torque and rpm.
The other is a reduced compression ratio. compared to the previous 600cc engine

this increased stroke is also why we are not getting back to 600f4 power output, because we have very little or no head space to lift RPM. and with RPM a factor in power we only see 10hp gains from improving gas flow and a tweak of fuel mixture.

by comparison, the 600F4i was a direct derivative of the 600RR. it has headroom an spades.

It's unfair to the 650F to continue to equate the engine to it's forebears in the same way we compared previous generation 600cc honda 4s.

miweber929 · Mar 6, 2018

by comparison, the 600F4i was a direct derivative of the 600RR. it has headroom an spades.

It’s the other way around, the RR power plant was derived from the F platform however it would as a clean sheet design with a stacked transmission and (I believe) a one piece cylinder/upper crankcase to name a few differences. The RR also has a dual injector FI system which fires a second set of injectors at high rpm/heavy throttle rotation; the boost that extra fuel provides is most of the extra power a RR has over an F4i.

Redline is much higher on an RR.

My dad has a very nice, very clean 06 F4i and it’s a rocket with great, fully adjustable suspension and a very slick transmission that will eat my 650F on a straight line roll on contest. It’s a shame Honda didn’t simply bore the F4i out and increase the midrange, it’s a very slick bike to ride fast.

The 650F was designed from the start to be low power output for the A2 licensing as previously mentioned andnit to have a high rpm redline.

Duncan · Mar 6, 2018

miweber929 said:
It’s the other way around, the RR power plant was derived from the F platform however it would as a clean sheet design with a stacked transmission and (I believe) a one piece cylinder/upper crankcase to name a few differences. The RR also has a dual injector FI system which fires a second set of injectors at high rpm/heavy throttle rotation; the boost that extra fuel provides is most of the extra power a RR has over an F4i.

Redline is much higher on an RR.

My dad has a very nice, very clean 06 F4i and it’s a rocket with great, fully adjustable suspension and a very slick transmission that will eat my 650F on a straight line roll on contest. It’s a shame Honda didn’t simply bore the F4i out and increase the midrange, it’s a very slick bike to ride fast.

The 650F was designed from the start to be low power output for the A2 licensing as previously mentioned andnit to have a high rpm redline.

thank you for the information regarding how divergent the RR got.

my POV on the A2 was from the OEM sheets showing that A2 work was not a solid thing until closer to the 2016 model. Germany was certifying after market throttle stops for A2 compliance as opposed to the Inlets and ECM that prevails. I am aware of a 39kw model in Russia in 2014.

Perhaps I'm inventing my own taxonomy but, i'm dubious about the A2 being a design target given how other manufacturers line up evolved in the EU market post 2013.

miweber929 · Mar 7, 2018

Duncan said:
thank you for the information regarding how divergent the RR got.

my POV on the A2 was from the OEM sheets showing that A2 work was not a solid thing until closer to the 2016 model. Germany was certifying after market throttle stops for A2 compliance as opposed to the Inlets and ECM that prevails. I am aware of a 39kw model in Russia in 2014.

Perhaps I'm inventing my own taxonomy but, i'm dubious about the A2 being a design target given how other manufacturers line up evolved in the EU market post 2013.

Most of the original design briefs I found links to when I first started looking into the CBR650F from early ‘14 specifically stated the 650F motor (and chassis, actually) was a clean sheet design specifically built with the A2 in mind which specifies the engine in full power trim can’t produce over double the horsepower of the restricted number of 48hp. That is how they landed in the 80’s for engine power and not the 100hp or so the F4i and even outgoing 600F, produced. And there was a specific goal to make the engine a low rev power producer as the people they were trying to attract, riders stepping up from the 250/300/500 segment were not used to, nor did they want, high rpm power; the F4i was a rev happy motor.

They also used younger, less experienced designers and engineers so they didn’t come in with predisposed ideas and would design something their age group would like. Lastly, the chassis was designed to be “modular”, much like the 500 and 700/750cc CTX/NC chassis is, so that you can have the motor and main frame be the basis for a naked, sport, cruiser, scooter, etc. motorcycles.

If you google the early “tests” and product announcements they go over all this.

I’m not sure if you’re confusing the timeline for Euro 4 and the A2, but the A2 spec was set in 2013 through current where the Euro 4 compliance has come into play in the ‘14-‘16 years.

Edit: here’s a link to one of the more detailed articles of the initial design and why it’s what the 650 does what it does:
http://www.visordown.com/features/road-tests/first-rides/uk-road-test-honda-cbr650f-review