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CBR650F Wont Start & PFG FI MIL Blinks

sky_walk

2015
CBR650F
Messages
4
Likes
4
Thread starter #1
Hi folks, I'm new here.
2015 CBR650F, bought used in 2018 and now has around 4500 miles in it.
Last time I rode in March of this year without any issues and had it parked for a month.

A week ago I tried starting and didn't start, dash lights were struggling to light up and eventually all the lights were dead except the battery light, which blinked few times and then went dead. I thought it'd be battery issue. So, after few days and watching some youtube videos , I jump started the bike from my Honda Civic (car was not turned on) and left the bike running for about 5 minutes, turned off, tried turning on again but failed. I then jump started again, left the bike running for about 20 minutes then turned off, turned on and it started fine. I tested by turning on and off for few more times on the same day and every time it started fine.

Next day, I turned on to verify it it starts before getting ready to work and it did. So, after about half hour, i came back and started the bike but now the dash was lit up like usual and the PGM FI MIL started blinking. The starter button cranks the engine though. I recorded the blinking code and turned off. Tried starting again but PGM FI MIL is not blinking now. The blinking pattern is 8 long ones and 6 short ones. Per the manual page 4-9, code 86-1 refers to "Serial communication malfunction" but the next column says "Engine operates normally". Does it mean, the engine should be running in this scenario in order for 86-1 to be taken into consideration? Anyways, I don't have any experience wrt fixing these and any suggestion and/or help is appreciated.

Reading older threads in this forum mentioned that 86 would be related to Throttle Position Sensor.

How much of work it is to troubleshoot this issue and how much it may cost to fix if I were to involve individual mechanics or dealerships?
I'm located in the US.
Thank you.
 

Brammers

2014
CBR650F ABS
Mod
Messages
2,491
Likes
1,042
Location
Hampshire, England
#2
The TP sensor is easy to get to, so I'd start there. Follow the troubleshooting in the manual for tests.

Also try the tp sensor reset process in the other thread.

Other than checking wiring they'll be little you can do to fix the serial comms... That's most likely a dealer job.

J
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
Mod
650F Alumnus
Messages
1,548
Likes
859
Location
Woodbury, MN
#3
Hi folks, I'm new here.
2015 CBR650F, bought used in 2018 and now has around 4500 miles in it.
Last time I rode in March of this year without any issues and had it parked for a month.

A week ago I tried starting and didn't start, dash lights were struggling to light up and eventually all the lights were dead except the battery light, which blinked few times and then went dead. I thought it'd be battery issue. So, after few days and watching some youtube videos , I jump started the bike from my Honda Civic (car was not turned on) and left the bike running for about 5 minutes, turned off, tried turning on again but failed. I then jump started again, left the bike running for about 20 minutes then turned off, turned on and it started fine. I tested by turning on and off for few more times on the same day and every time it started fine.

Next day, I turned on to verify it it starts before getting ready to work and it did. So, after about half hour, i came back and started the bike but now the dash was lit up like usual and the PGM FI MIL started blinking. The starter button cranks the engine though. I recorded the blinking code and turned off. Tried starting again but PGM FI MIL is not blinking now. The blinking pattern is 8 long ones and 6 short ones. Per the manual page 4-9, code 86-1 refers to "Serial communication malfunction" but the next column says "Engine operates normally". Does it mean, the engine should be running in this scenario in order for 86-1 to be taken into consideration? Anyways, I don't have any experience wrt fixing these and any suggestion and/or help is appreciated.

Reading older threads in this forum mentioned that 86 would be related to Throttle Position Sensor.

How much of work it is to troubleshoot this issue and how much it may cost to fix if I were to involve individual mechanics or dealerships?
I'm located in the US.
Thank you.
Ok, so let’s start with me understanding the situation:

Bike started and ran fine, no changes, mods, etc. and it sat for a month. You tried to start it, battery seemed weak so you jumped it, let it idle for 5 minutes, it didn’t restart, so you jumped it again, let it idle 20 minutes and it’ll restart. Tried to start the next day, it did, you shut it off quickly and started it again a half hour later with the MIL light now on. It does run, however, but you didn’t ride it.

Is that right?

So never in there did you ride the bike any length of time, use an external battery charger or otherwise do anything to the original dead battery? Was it sitting longer than a month?

If that’s the case, get a charger and charge the battery first, ride the bike an hour or so (not idle, RIDE) and see if the error will eventually go away after a few restarts and the FI system is cleaned out. With a low, suspect, or jump started battery you could get all sorts of weird readings the ECU wasn’t expecting and that could throw an error code.

Motorcycles, 99% of them at least, have a stator and voltage rectifier system that will not charge a battery at idle or low RPM, and the systems is only designed to recharge a slightly depleated battery, not a full charge like a car alternator does so if it’s even slightly low all sorts of weird shit will happen.

If it’s not starting, charge the battery, do the flooded start procedure outlined in your owners manual and here on the forum, and see if that works.

Please report back, we’d like to help you.
 

sky_walk

2015
CBR650F
Messages
4
Likes
4
Thread starter #5
The TP sensor is easy to get to, so I'd start there. Follow the troubleshooting in the manual for tests.

Also try the tp sensor reset process in the other thread.

Other than checking wiring they'll be little you can do to fix the serial comms... That's most likely a dealer job.

J
Thank you for your suggestion. I will look into TP sensor reset process.
 

sky_walk

2015
CBR650F
Messages
4
Likes
4
Thread starter #6
Ok, so let’s start with me understanding the situation:

Bike started and ran fine, no changes, mods, etc. and it sat for a month. You tried to start it, battery seemed weak so you jumped it, let it idle for 5 minutes, it didn’t restart, so you jumped it again, let it idle 20 minutes and it’ll restart. Tried to start the next day, it did, you shut it off quickly and started it again a half hour later with the MIL light now on. It does run, however, but you didn’t ride it.

Is that right?
Pretty much except that the bike didn't run/start the second time. That is, the prev day I jumped it, let it run for 20 mins. The next day I started it fine, shut it off, tried to start again after half hour but didn't start/run and this is when the MIL started blinking.

So never in there did you ride the bike any length of time, use an external battery charger or otherwise do anything to the original dead battery? Was it sitting longer than a month?
I didn't ride the bike from beginning of last year November for 3 months and then rode one day at the end of January this year. Had it parked, waiting for warmer weather, then rode it one day in March and then again had it parked for a month. I never had it connected to a battery tender, it was idle all the time.

If that’s the case, get a charger and charge the battery first, ride the bike an hour or so (not idle, RIDE) and see if the error will eventually go away after a few restarts and the FI system is cleaned out. With a low, suspect, or jump started battery you could get all sorts of weird readings the ECU wasn’t expecting and that could throw an error code.

Motorcycles, 99% of them at least, have a stator and voltage rectifier system that will not charge a battery at idle or low RPM, and the systems is only designed to recharge a slightly depleated battery, not a full charge like a car alternator does so if it’s even slightly low all sorts of weird shit will happen.

If it’s not starting, charge the battery, do the flooded start procedure outlined in your owners manual and here on the forum, and see if that works.

Please report back, we’d like to help you.
I will definitely get a battery charger to charge the battery and then check if it gets the bike started and take it for a ride. I will update here.
Thanks a lot for helping a newbie.
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
Mod
650F Alumnus
Messages
1,548
Likes
859
Location
Woodbury, MN
#7
Pretty much except that the bike didn't run/start the second time. That is, the prev day I jumped it, let it run for 20 mins. The next day I started it fine, shut it off, tried to start again after half hour but didn't start/run and this is when the MIL started blinking.


I didn't ride the bike from beginning of last year November for 3 months and then rode one day at the end of January this year. Had it parked, waiting for warmer weather, then rode it one day in March and then again had it parked for a month. I never had it connected to a battery tender, it was idle all the time.


I will definitely get a battery charger to charge the battery and then check if it gets the bike started and take it for a ride. I will update here.
Thanks a lot for helping a newbie.
Thanks for getting back to us.

Yeah, the bike needs to have the battery charged by an external source if it’s going to sit that long between rides. Doesn’t have to be all the time but every few weeks or before you’re going to ride it, charge it, life will be much better.

Also, FI bikes do not line to be started, ran only for a few minutes and shut off. Because they don’t have chokes to aid starting in the traditional sense (usually reducing the air intake) the ECU dumps extra fuel to aid in starting that can quickly and easily fouls the spark plugs. Also, idling for long periods of time causes the same thing: extra fuel that doesn’t get burned off, it needs to be started, warmed for a minute or so max and ridden to circulate everything and really heat it up.

Charge the battery, then try to start it using the flooded procedure (cranking it with the throttle wide open for a few seconds) and see if it’ll go. You may need additional help, but my guess is it’ll start.
 

sky_walk

2015
CBR650F
Messages
4
Likes
4
Thread starter #9
S sky_walk any updates?
@ Brammers Brammers
hello, I bought a battery tender (Battery Tender Junior from Walmart) and had it charge the battery overnight (battery indicator started with solid red and turned to solid green next morning) a week ago but didn't have the time to ride it. Since you recommended to ride it after full charging, I rode it this past weekend without any issues. Thanks a bunch for your help. You guys rock!!!
 

Enrico

2018
CB650F ABS
Messages
59
Likes
19
#12
Had an Optimate battery charger/monitor with plug in lead which I always swap on to new bike when I exchange bikes. Leave it on most of the time in winter when bike is in garage and other times if bike isn't used for about a week. Wouldn't be without it. Otherwise riding bike keeps battery charged.