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All 650Fs What’s your shifting style?

halfmt1

2020
CB650R
Nov 9, 2019
I don't go by the book on the adjustments, I adjust to what feels right to me. I like almost no freeplay in the throttle, just enough to not bind, and I have more clutch freeplay so it engages sooner in the lever range (for me it engaged way too late).
You have to see what feels right to you. This is where experience plays a big part, you have to know what you prefer.
 

Enrico

2018
CB650F ABS
Mar 28, 2019
I couldn't describe how to change gear, just use the clutch ,throttle and change gear so it feels right ! :) As they say, be in the right gear ,at the right speed, in the right place - or something like that !
 

ZOMGdonuts

2019
CB650R
May 5, 2020
Riding Since
2018
Being brand new to my CB650R I’m also trying to figure out the “sweet spot” for shifts. Coming off the Grom as my only riding experience, the CB is much different in what I feel is the “right” way to shift, especially going down the gears...

Upshifting for me hasn’t been too bad, still getting used to the friction zone which feels pretty “grabby” compared to the Grom. Not sure if the lever pull is just physically shorter or if the exponential increase in engine power has more to do with that? Either way, I’m confident that the upshifts will get smoother as my clutch & throttle hands dial in more precise for this specific bike.

Downshifts have been more of an issue for me however, I can’t seem to rev-match to save my life!! Being used to the Grom, downshifting needs a pretty liberal throttle blip to rev match or else the shift is very harsh & jerky... But with the new CB, I’ve been finding that I’m blipping WAY too much and it feels like the engine is revv’ing too high while re-engaging the clutch which also results in not-so-smooth downshifts.

Can anyone chime in specifically on their downshift blip technique?? I feel that it may be due to me still getting used to the clutch + throttle which are both very different than what I’m used to, but I know those harsh downshifts can’t possibly be good for the engine — especially in the initial break-in period!!

Sorry I can't help as I'm struggling with the exact same problem (rev-matching on downshifts). I believe it's because of the way the bike is geared - the top gears are pretty close to each other I think. For example, going 100kph, the RPM difference between 6th and 5th gear isn't all that much, and since it's such a rev-happy bike, a little bit of throttle really sends the engine spinning.

I'm not sure if the answer is that it just isn't a bike to be rev-matched (as ordinary downshifts end up being pretty smooth), or if you only rematch below 3rd, or if you really just need more finesse than I currently have.
 

GregTheWalrus3

2020
CB650R ABS
May 20, 2020
Riding Since
2018
I believe it's because of the way the bike is geared - the top gears are pretty close to each other I think. For example, going 100kph, the RPM difference between 6th and 5th gear isn't all that much, and since it's such a rev-happy bike, a little bit of throttle really sends the engine spinning.

Yeah, I’ve noticed the same thing... Gearing feels a lot closer ratios than what I was used to... On my next ride, I think I’ll just focus on more precise clutch technique - especially with that slipper clutch it may be smooth enough not to worry about rev’matching too much.

But the finesse is also definitely a contributing factor too; I’m still getting used to the new bike and re-dialing in my skills... One thing’s for sure, this bike is quickly making me realize I need to polish up my basics again. I feel like a brand new rider again in a way, because the Grom never forced me develop the “fine-tuned” control very well being that it runs wide open throttle pretty much 100% of the time. The 650R is a WORLD of difference in input sensitivity lol 😂
 

Road Hog

2014
CBR650F ABS
May 4, 2017
Thailand
As I said before,the best investment I made on this bike was my aftermarket rearset. The fully adjustable rearset match my height and

feet perfectly. I never missed a gear for over 3 years.
 

Baby Vanta

2018
CB650F
May 20, 2020
Riding Since
2017
Yeah the CB does require consistent shifting, no hesitation but a clear click up and down is required. I always adjust the setting of my bike’s, such as handlebar angles an if it centered, clutch and break lever position (straight line from shoulder to finger top) clutch free play, foot pegs (If needed and possible), brake and clutch paddle height, suspension etc. The factory setup is not a one size fits all. If you adjust your setup correctly you have more comfort and the controls are smoother to use.
Thanks for the pointer on the handlebar control angles
Sorry I can't help as I'm struggling with the exact same problem (rev-matching on downshifts). I believe it's because of the way the bike is geared - the top gears are pretty close to each other I think. For example, going 100kph, the RPM difference between 6th and 5th gear isn't all that much, and since it's such a rev-happy bike, a little bit of throttle really sends the engine spinning.

I'm not sure if the answer is that it just isn't a bike to be rev-matched (as ordinary downshifts end up being pretty smooth), or if you only rematch below 3rd, or if you really just need more finesse than I currently have.
Finally passed the break in period and something I learned since then is that the bike has two ranges of power/torque:

1. Low end. There’s low end torque (below 5k rpm) that’s super useful for city commuting and fuel economy. Unfortunately I find that the most effective way to accelerate in this range is to simply short shift all the way up to 6th like a mad man. Most of my prolonged acceleration is on 3rd or 4th gear. Under this condition, I skip a gear and short shift into 6th as needed. I averaged 50mpg of pure street miles with this method: muuuuch better than what I had anticipated.

2. High end. I’ve only gained access to this range of power today, but from what I can gather in the 100 miles since enjoying it, this range is simply around to have fun with for the twisties and whatever sporty application you want to use it for. It’s given me a greater appreciation for the shorter gear ratios as they’ll keep you in that range of power regardless of how high or low you shift; if the gearing was set too tall, then there would be less gears to play with at this range. I think this design feature is pretty genius considering the ride qualities Honda intended for this bike to have.

Another thing I’ve noticed is that this bike has an anti-power range. It’s between 5-6k rpm and it almost feels as if torque was intentionally killed as the bike noticeably reduces acceleration when passing through this range. It’s the threshold between the low high end of power ranges, and my guess is that it serves as a buffer to help riders stay in the desired power range.

I’ve only owned this bike for idk, a week now so this could all just be overthinking and I’ve got it all wrong. I’ll post more info about all this as I become even more familiar with the bike and such.
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
Riding Since
1975
I’m going to stay out of this whole discussion for the most part but the one thing I will say is worrying about fuel mileage on something that gets over 40mpg if you beat the crap out of it without having learned enough to properly shift and rev match is absolutely ridiculous.

Learn to “properly” ride first, then try to modify it for best fuel economy.

There are a ton of great videos and books by respected people out there that teach proper skills as well as actual in person schools that will also help you learn proper skills. They are worth their weight in gold; spend money there, not on useless bling like smaller indicators, exhausts and tail tidys which do nothing for your long term health.
 

Baby Vanta

2018
CB650F
May 20, 2020
Riding Since
2017
I’m going to stay out of this whole discussion for the most part but the one thing I will say is worrying about fuel mileage on something that gets over 40mpg if you beat the crap out of it without having learned enough to properly shift and rev match is absolutely ridiculous.

Learn to “properly” ride first, then try to modify it for best fuel economy.

There are a ton of great videos and books by respected people out there that teach proper skills as well as actual in person schools that will also help you learn proper skills. They are worth their weight in gold; spend money there, not on useless bling like smaller indicators, exhausts and tail tidys which do nothing for your long term health.
Never been one to burn money on aftermarket cosmetics. The 650 looks and sound gorgeous stock in any model it’s sold in (although I think the latest R model will age the worst once consumers get sick of the retro fad).

But mind listing some of those reading suggestions? I’m a rather capable rider but there’s a few areas that need improvement.

Also, maximizing mpg is its own realm of fun. Fuel economy (as well as reliability and lanesplitting) is why I got rid of my beloved turboed cars. There’s a satisfaction that’s felt knowing the amount of fun I had in the past 200 miles was had on $10 of gas over $60. But hey, I got into motorcycling when I was a broke engineering student so you can see how this stuff would excite a numbers guy.
 

Itchytoe

2018
CB650F
Dec 15, 2019
Thanks for the pointer on the handlebar control angles

Finally passed the break in period and something I learned since then is that the bike has two ranges of power/torque:

1. Low end. There’s low end torque (below 5k rpm) that’s super useful for city commuting and fuel economy. Unfortunately I find that the most effective way to accelerate in this range is to simply short shift all the way up to 6th like a mad man. Most of my prolonged acceleration is on 3rd or 4th gear. Under this condition, I skip a gear and short shift into 6th as needed. I averaged 50mpg of pure street miles with this method: muuuuch better than what I had anticipated.

2. High end. I’ve only gained access to this range of power today, but from what I can gather in the 100 miles since enjoying it, this range is simply around to have fun with for the twisties and whatever sporty application you want to use it for. It’s given me a greater appreciation for the shorter gear ratios as they’ll keep you in that range of power regardless of how high or low you shift; if the gearing was set too tall, then there would be less gears to play with at this range. I think this design feature is pretty genius considering the ride qualities Honda intended for this bike to have.

Another thing I’ve noticed is that this bike has an anti-power range. It’s between 5-6k rpm and it almost feels as if torque was intentionally killed as the bike noticeably reduces acceleration when passing through this range. It’s the threshold between the low high end of power ranges, and my guess is that it serves as a buffer to help riders stay in the desired power range.

I’ve only owned this bike for idk, a week now so this could all just be overthinking and I’ve got it all wrong. I’ll post more info about all this as I become even more familiar with the bike and such.
My friend, you are definitely overthinking it. Modern engines, even on bikes like ours, don't really need to break in period. You can be very gentle for the first year, or simply ride it like you stole it on day 1 and you won't be able to tell the difference between the engines in any way. Honestly, "break in" is more of a myth than anything else at this point. It's true that wear is higher when you first start using an engine, but if you stay under 4,000 RPM for a year, then finally take it up to 9,000 the next year, you'll get really high wear again. That's why they tell you to vary the RPM instead of staying at a steady RPM for the "break in". That way, you get all of the high wear over then do the 600 mile oil change to get all that garbage out of the crank case. Then you've got fresh oil, and won't experience accelerated wear because everything is worn in. Just don't redline it with a cold engine on day 1. Or any day for that matter. That's always bad.

If you're trying to burn as little fuel as possible, slow down. Going 60 instead of 65 will save you more fuel than skipping gears and shifting faster, or at specific RPMs. Also, you'll save fuel by getting up to speed reasonably and quickly. You do that best by using each gear effectively.

The way I shift is pretty simple. I shift when it's comfortable to do so. That usually puts me shifting around 5,000 to 6,000 RPM around town, and up around 9,000 when getting up to speed to merge onto the interstates. If I'm just going to enjoy a nice twisty road, well, I'm not so worried about fuel economy anymore...
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
Riding Since
1975
Also, maximizing mpg is its own realm of fun. Fuel economy (as well as reliability and lanesplitting) is why I got rid of my beloved turboed cars. There’s a satisfaction that’s felt knowing the amount of fun I had in the past 200 miles was had on $10 of gas over $60. But hey, I got into motorcycling when I was a broke engineering student so you can see how this stuff would excite a numbers guy.

I get it, but as I said unless shifting and riding happens without thought, save the mileage shenanigans until you get to that point. If you’re quick shifting up to sixth and suddenly need to make a move where you need power you’re dropping 4 gears down if you’re at 40mph. That can be dangerous. This bike also gets great mileage if you ride it “normal” is all I’m saying.

But mind listing some of those reading suggestions? I’m a rather capable rider but there’s a few areas that need improvement.

Have you been to an advanced school? I would highly suggest an organized track day and local riding school as the best thing you can do. Locally here in Minneapolis we have a school called ZARS which is a tremendous place to teach riding skills to all levels of riders.

As far as books, the Keith Code stuff is fine, Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatch is one of the best (also look for articles titled The Pace And The Pace II), Lee Parks, Reg Pridmore, Lawerence Grodsky are a couple more. There’s a bunch out there if you look.
 

Saqib200

2019
CBR650R
Aug 16, 2019
Caddington, England
Being brand new to my CB650R I’m also trying to figure out the “sweet spot” for shifts. Coming off the Grom as my only riding experience, the CB is much different in what I feel is the “right” way to shift, especially going down the gears...

Upshifting for me hasn’t been too bad, still getting used to the friction zone which feels pretty “grabby” compared to the Grom. Not sure if the lever pull is just physically shorter or if the exponential increase in engine power has more to do with that? Either way, I’m confident that the upshifts will get smoother as my clutch & throttle hands dial in more precise for this specific bike.

Downshifts have been more of an issue for me however, I can’t seem to rev-match to save my life!! Being used to the Grom, downshifting needs a pretty liberal throttle blip to rev match or else the shift is very harsh & jerky... But with the new CB, I’ve been finding that I’m blipping WAY too much and it feels like the engine is revv’ing too high while re-engaging the clutch which also results in not-so-smooth downshifts.

Can anyone chime in specifically on their downshift blip technique?? I feel that it may be due to me still getting used to the clutch + throttle which are both very different than what I’m used to, but I know those harsh downshifts can’t possibly be good for the engine — especially in the initial break-in period!!

The bike has slipper clutch, so although rev-matching is fun its not always necessary.

Clutch in - drop down a gear - dump the clutch.

Slipper clutch will sort everything out for you, thats its job. Of course that is in the dry, take care in the wet.
 

szyowe112

2015
CB650F ABS
Mar 2, 2020
if the speed limit is 70Km/H, I will just use 1st gear to reach 70 and then up shit to 6th gear
that is a lot of fun for the in line 4 engine sound
 

ghehen

2018
CBR650F ABS
Jun 27, 2019
Vietnam
A clutch lever adjusted right to your hand, lubricated clutch cable, right freeplay clutch lever setting, in range chain slack (maybe nearly to 25mm is better) are major if you want to have a sweet shift.
In a peaceful day i used to shift up at 4-5000rm to catch sweet and quite engine in another day, 8-10k rpm to reachout aggressive acceleration.
Perfect settings could give you amazing feeling.
 

Goblin

2019
CB650R ABS
Sep 2, 2019
Shifting shifting shifting, normally you don’t think about it, it’s like breathing. It’s one of many fundamental things that connects you with the bike. Until you encounter some difficulties. With new riders it’s nine out of ten user error related. Try to learn as much you can about proper shifting techniques and remember that every bike has a different shift feeling. For new riders who experience difficulties during shifting and you really want to rule out a faulty setup or even worse a gearbox problem, let a experience rider friend test ride your bike. I’m not saying that they are trained mechanics but the experience rider usually knows the proper shifting techniques and therefore can say a lot about the shifting of your bike.

I’m not a mechanic either but over the years you learn a lot about the technical aspects of a bike.

Finally it’s a matter of practice practice practice and it will become second nature.
 

Underworld Taco

2019
CB650R ABS
Mar 23, 2020
Portugal
Riding Since
2019
Shifting shifting shifting, normally you don’t think about it, it’s like breathing. It’s one of many fundamental things that connects you with the bike. Until you encounter some difficulties. With new riders it’s nine out of ten user error related. Try to learn as much you can about proper shifting techniques and remember that every bike has a different shift feeling. For new riders who experience difficulties during shifting and you really want to rule out a faulty setup or even worse a gearbox problem, let a experience rider friend test ride your bike. I’m not saying that they are trained mechanics but the experience rider usually knows the proper shifting techniques and therefore can say a lot about the shifting of your bike.

I’m not a mechanic either but over the years you learn a lot about the technical aspects of a bike.

Finally it’s a matter of practice practice practice and it will become second nature.
Goblin have a good point,i started with car and after 2 years decided to get a bike licence, and even car is different, i was very comfortable with bike gearbox because i learned the concept, i dont think about shifting, its something that comes natural atm,all i can say is i shift between 4-11k,the rest i let the mood decide the rpm i shift
 
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