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All 650's Redoing brake lines (Hel kit)

Brammers

2014
CBR650F ABS
Staff
May 30, 2014
Hampshire, England
I fancied upgrading the brake lines for a few reasons:

1) Had a bonus from work burning a hole in my pocket
2) They look better than stock
3) I haven't taken the brake system apart yet - and I wanted get in there!
4) They might improve performance, but I doubt I'll notice much (I don't race - bobstrax @bobstrax !)

It's been an interesting journey.

First, HEL botched the front left caliper line (made it 20mm too long). Their support guy was initially a dick "you're holding the wrong line there" he said, assuming I had the rear master line confused. A quick photo of the kit sorted his attitude out and he apologised (and admitted he'd read the microfiche wrong). Next up (and I found this out at the last minute during fitting) they supplied a non-threaded block for the front line. I made a workaround - details later.

Decided to do the rears first because they are easier to get to and I needed to "get my eye in".

So, onwards...

The rears. No dramas here other than the ABS lines are in the most awkward place - you find yourself doing quarter turns using a 10mm spanner. Time consuming but easy enough. Go steady, take your time.

2018-03-31 11.27.28.jpg

Putting the new hoses in requires some bad language as you fight to align everything and the hoses. It'll go in though.

The rubber spacers supplied on the main line aren't big enough for the OEM clips. I created some padding using an old inner tube cut into strips and wrapped around. This worked a treat.

2018-03-31 12.24.21.jpg


The fronts. <insert bad language here!>

Master cylinder line to ABS unit. Honda, really!??! Why did you terminate the host there?
Inked2018-04-01 18.47.45_LI.jpg

Yes, that's above the rocker cover - so off goes the airbox! :banghead: Working in there is also tight on space - patience is your friend!

To explain the nut in the photo. The OEM block connector is threaded. HEL shipped one that isn't. They WILL be shipping one that is (but they don't know that yet!), but I'll fit it at the next service when the plugs get changed.

If you're wondering, that is an M6x25mm stainless hex socket cap bolt and a M6 stainless nylock nut. The black plastic block connector isn't actually part of the brake line, so it's not a safety issue at all. You can slide them off the stainless line fitting underneath.

So with that little drama behind me, I move underneath...

Main line from ABS unit to left caliper (v2.0 line):
2018-04-01 18.47.59.jpg

Which goes to here:
2018-04-01 23.10.49.jpg

The right caliper line joins in the party at this point and heads over here...
2018-04-01 23.10.39.jpg

I left the master cylinder until last but it's straightforward:
2018-04-01 23.10.58.jpg

The biggest annoyance is that none of the OEM clips are usable any more due to the SS lines being thinner. Cable (zip) ties to the rescue! Highlighted on my pic "ABS line to left caliper".

I've bled the system. I used a home-brew vacuum system to draw oil through first, then bled in the traditional way thereafter. Other than it taking a while, no issues to report.

No leaks to report either!

So tomorrow the airbox etc. can all be refitted after a run a little more brake fluid through, in case some trapped air has settled and can be flushed out.

Any questions, please ask them soon, before I forget the answers :)

J
 
Last edited:

Somchai

2018
CBR650F ABS
Jan 13, 2018
Thailand
When I bought my bike I was pretty sure that was the 1st mod I would do, but after seeing the following video I became much less sure.
So now very interested in the feel you'll get after the update.

 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
Riding Since
1975
That video is living proof that if there are 5,000 videos showing the benefits of something, there will always be someone attempting to debunk it. Nothing wrong with rubber lines, but in the long run, SS lines have a lot of benefits.

The above video is wrong in a lot of ways:

- cars only use rubber lines in “flexing” areas, lines are steel everywhere else. You can see in the video the steel junction at the top of the wheel well.

- rubber “flexes” when the piston hits the rotor and can’t move forward, NOT when you hit the lever. Force always follow the path of least resistance, in the case of a hydraulic brake it’s the piston until it hits the rotor. As it ages, it flexes more, THAT is the main complaint of “increased feel” SS lines have.

- rubber lines are used because they are cheap, easy to move around and can touch bodywork without damage.

- MOST SS lines are now rubber coated, VERY few are actually steel on the outside so rubbing bodywork isn’t an issue.

- the “rubber” on the outside is only a rubber sheath, it can be cracked all over the place and still “function” so rubber lines being easier to physically see issues is crap.

Steel lines don’t flex as easy as rubber, especially when rubber ages. Steel lines also don’t get soft from age like rubber so they last longer.

In the end, that’s their main plus, that’s truly an awful video. The best way to have good, solid feeling brakes?Keep fresh fluid in it, keep good brake pads on the bike and keep your calipers and piston clean.
 

bobstrax

2017
CB650F ABS
Oct 1, 2017
Lincolnshire
IMO....lol....if I was racing..... ( Brammers ;) ....steel always and direct from the master cylinders....and it would be Goodrich hoses (an old fav). If I'm just riding then standard OEM fine and leave them alone.
miweber929 @miweber929 is spot on....clean and care always best...blow out Calipers with an airline if you have one...clean the discs regularly, you'll be amazed at the gunk coated on there...these surfaces are crucial at the end of the day. Decent pads should help improve bite a bit, at least on the front and fresh fluid always works wonders :)
 

Road Hog

2014
CBR650F ABS
May 4, 2017
Thailand
I think to change your brake lines to stainless steel you would want to keep your bike longer than 5 years or
be putting alot of miles on it. I'm in two mines on the question of how long i will be keeping my bike,but i
do support the the stainless steel ones.
 

Brammers

2014
CBR650F ABS
Staff
May 30, 2014
Hampshire, England
Agreed. I'm at 3 years and 28000 miles. My last bike got sold after I owned it from new for 17 years.

I've no plans on moving on anytime soon, so I think it's a good investment.

J
 

Brammers

2014
CBR650F ABS
Staff
May 30, 2014
Hampshire, England
Feedback sent to HEL today:

I thought you might like to receive my feedback on the kit and how it fits to the CBR650F. This feedback is also on the CBR650F owners forums (that I help Moderate).


Rear brakes:

  • Line lengths were spot on
  • Calliper line “rubber bushes” – these are WAY too small for the OEM line clamps and slide all over the place.
    • I packed them out with a small strip of rubber so it gripped correctly.
    • Recommendation: Either supply new metal clips, or supply bigger grommets on the lines.
Front brakes:

  • Master cylinder to ABS unit – length OK.
    • Block on junction point end – this has the wrong hole – it should be threaded. The lack of threading meant the line couldn’t be secured to the bike. I improvised by purchasing a 25mm M6 bolt and nut to go right through the plain hole.
    • Recommendation: Ship the correct block on future kits (and also ship one to me please, so I can remove the “improvised mounting” ASAP).
  • ABS Unit to left calliper - length OK (on second manufacturing attempt)
    • Small hose from junction to left calliper – this would benefit from more flexibility. Removing the calliper with the new hose will now require the junction block to be unbolted as well (OEM hoses don’t need this)
      • Recommendation: Put less “metal fixing” on the junction block (calliper side) and more flexible hose instead.
  • ABS Unit to junction point – hose diameter is smaller than OEM, making the ABS wire clips useless (part nos. 3 & 4 on the microfiche)
    • I’ve had to use rather unprofessional cable ties to protect the ABS wire
    • Recommendation: Supply clips that work on your hose diameter in the kit (or supply sleeves/washers of some kind to make braided hose the correct size for the clips)
  • Left calliper to right calliper
    • Length OK
    • ABS wire clips don’t fit the hose any more (as per previous statement) – same recommendation(s)
  • Spare double banjo bolt supplied – don’t know why, as my bike only has 5 single banjo connectors on it!

J
 

baugustine

2014
CBR650F
Staff
May 21, 2016
Ventura, CA
Excellent info! Brammers @Brammers and I discussed this topic last week when I was in the UK. I swapped all my vehicles to SS brake lines when I did a brake job because they are far superior to the rubber line in every way. (As long as they fit properly)

The ONLY reason an OEM does not install them from the factory is they cost more and they don’t want to incur the additional fixed cost. They also know that they will have a fleet of vehicles that eventually will need to have the rubber hoses replaced and the parts business is very lucrative. Just like rubber on tires, the more external exposure (UV, salt, grime, etc) the shorter the lifespan will be.
 

bobstrax

2017
CB650F ABS
Oct 1, 2017
Lincolnshire
Feedback sent to HEL today:

I thought you might like to receive my feedback on the kit and how it fits to the CBR650F. This feedback is also on the CBR650F owners forums (that I help Moderate).


Rear brakes:

  • Line lengths were spot on
  • Calliper line “rubber bushes” – these are WAY too small for the OEM line clamps and slide all over the place.
    • I packed them out with a small strip of rubber so it gripped correctly.
    • Recommendation: Either supply new metal clips, or supply bigger grommets on the lines.
Front brakes:

  • Master cylinder to ABS unit – length OK.
    • Block on junction point end – this has the wrong hole – it should be threaded. The lack of threading meant the line couldn’t be secured to the bike. I improvised by purchasing a 25mm M6 bolt and nut to go right through the plain hole.
    • Recommendation: Ship the correct block on future kits (and also ship one to me please, so I can remove the “improvised mounting” ASAP).
  • ABS Unit to left calliper - length OK (on second manufacturing attempt)
    • Small hose from junction to left calliper – this would benefit from more flexibility. Removing the calliper with the new hose will now require the junction block to be unbolted as well (OEM hoses don’t need this)
      • Recommendation: Put less “metal fixing” on the junction block (calliper side) and more flexible hose instead.
  • ABS Unit to junction point – hose diameter is smaller than OEM, making the ABS wire clips useless (part nos. 3 & 4 on the microfiche)
    • I’ve had to use rather unprofessional cable ties to protect the ABS wire
    • Recommendation: Supply clips that work on your hose diameter in the kit (or supply sleeves/washers of some kind to make braided hose the correct size for the clips)
  • Left calliper to right calliper
    • Length OK
    • ABS wire clips don’t fit the hose any more (as per previous statement) – same recommendation(s)
  • Spare double banjo bolt supplied – don’t know why, as my bike only has 5 single banjo connectors on it!

J
Excellent stuff :)
Very interested to see what reply you may get.
ps the double banjo bolt, I believe, is normally supplied to those who are running 2 lines, direct off their front caliper. Not much use for a single abs set-up at all......a freebie for all the hassle ;)
 

rustyeyed

2016
CBR650F ABS
Oct 14, 2015
United Kingdom
Brammers @Brammers ... So the current state of affairs,

I have to install the following:
1. PC5
2. K&N
3. PAIR Blanks
4. HEL SS Lines

Just realised I can do that all when the air box is off.

Nice write up. I only couldn't understand the bit from the master cylinder to the block under the airbox? Sorry if it's obvious I am a bit slow at time :rolleyes:
 

Brammers

2014
CBR650F ABS
Staff
May 30, 2014
Hampshire, England
It's the block that I had to bolt on because it wasn't threaded.

Goes between the front master cyclinder (brake lever end) and the ABS modulator unit (joins under the airbox).

J
 

rustyeyed

2016
CBR650F ABS
Oct 14, 2015
United Kingdom
It's the block that I had to bolt on because it wasn't threaded.

Goes between the front master cyclinder (brake lever end) and the ABS modulator unit (joins under the airbox).

J

So do I have to buy the bolt separately or have to call these guys up to send me that bolt? Bike is ready for upgrades but I want to make sure I got all the bits before I realise mid way something is not right lol
 

Brammers

2014
CBR650F ABS
Staff
May 30, 2014
Hampshire, England
You need the bolt (unless they send the corrected part).

It's an m6 bolt 25mm long (a 30mm one would also work). Also you'll need an m6 nyloc nut.

Hopefully HEL sort it out their side. Give them hell (haha) when you order. I'm sure they will remember me by now.

J
 
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