New 600RR Confirmed

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
HOW THINGS REALLY GET BUILT

A short screenplay by baugustine @baugustine . No Accountants were hurt or maimed in the filming of this movie 🤓

Scene Opens in a non-descript conference room, somewhere in Japan...

SALES/MARKETING: “We sold 629,000 units last year worldwide, but our competitors, especially the other Japanese brands, have really upped the ante with their latest offerings. We need to come out with something new to entice both new buyers into our dealers as well as convince existing customers they need to trade up”

ENGINEERING: “We can’t do that, we are short personnel and our budget just got slashed for new development”

FINANCE: “Can’t you just paint it a new color, put some stripes on it, and call it “new”? We’ve already amortized this thing out and don’t want to invest in anything that is not a sure thing”

SALES/MARKETING: “Are you kidding me? Our customers are smart, especially with this internet thing not going away. They’ll know we‘re just being cheap and trying to pull a fast one on them”

FINANCE: “Engineering, if we allocate a few million Yen to upgrade this platform, what you can deliver?”

ENGINEERING: “We’re going to need some time to study this, come up with some breakthroughs. We’ll report back in a few months what we think may be possible.”

SALES/MARKETING: “What? We don’t have time to waste studying this, we need to get building it. Our competitors are all over our backsides right now [Ed: I don’t think most Japanese use foul language. That’s the most pissed they can appear]

ENGINEERING: ”You’ll need to give us some direction on what the customer wants so we can develop a comprehensive plan to design, test and implement”

FINANCE: “Sales- just how many more of these will you sell if we allocate this development funding?”

SALES/MARKETING: ”That depends on when Engineering can deliver. We need to add the latest technologies to stay competitive, and keep the retail price about where it is so we don’t spook the customer”

FINANCE Department all soil themselves at this point. Show look of utter fear and embarrassment on their faces

FINANCE: “We need an accurate sales forecast of what will be sold so we can get Executive Management approval for this expenditure.”

SALES/MARKETING: “We can only project what we may sell if we do not do this needed upgrade. We also will suggest a 23% reduction in sales next year if we do not make any changes”

FINANCE Department all throw up in their mouths.

ENGINEERING: ”How about we just make it lighter, use more expensive components inside the engine and raise the redline?”

SALES/MARKETING: “That’s not new. That’s just a slight improvement in existing design”

FINANCE: “Engineering, that sounds lIke a great plan, lets do that instead. Oh, and put some stripes on it”

SALES/MARKETING pretends they are happy, because that’s what Japanese do when they are at an impasse. FINANCE directs Engineering to work more with less and Executive Management gets a big bonus for being Thrifty with the shareholders investment. And oh, BTW, the customer is told to trade in for the new model, because the old one they just paid off is now yesterday’s news. Time to call the motojournalists to start “leaking” the details....
That’s awesome!!! So here’s how I think it went:

Honda Sales: we sell 500 600RRs a year and haven’t substantially changed anything since 2007. What can we do to sell more? Yamaha sells 3x as many R6’s as we do since they added a bunch of electronic stuff to it.

Engineering: Sure, we can add that but it’ll add to the costs to make it by 25%.

Sales: Will it be faster?

Engineering: Nope.

Financial: How many more can we sell if they are electronicy and raise the price to cover the expenses?

Sales: Maybe 100 first year, 10 every year after.

Finance: Well thats not much return on investment. Who’s most likely to buy?

Sales: Japan, probably.

Corporate: Lets sell it there.
 

Rocket Crotch

MotoGP
Oct 18, 2017
The 600RR, up to now, remaining somewhat stuck in time is ideal for me. If I was to pick up another bike or two one of them would be the previous gen 600RR and another would be the current, also frozen in time, hayabusa. I appreciate a bike with minimal electronics, analog gauges or at least analog tach, and good ol' mechanical linkages for throttle. You're not going to have "more fun" on a liter bike on the street or even the track... with the CB650 being a solid 90 HP with the 600RR being 120 HP you are looking at a 30% gain in power on a lighter bike with far better components all around.
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
with the CB650 being a solid 90 HP with the 600RR being 120 HP you are looking at a 30% gain in power on a lighter bike with far better components all around.
For clarity sake, the 650 is closer to 80 or 85hp and the RR is 100 to 105hp or more like a 20% top end power difference.

Your point are well taken, and I can agree for the most part, however the two bikes (650 and RR) are really designed for two different purposes and have two different price points; the RR should be “faster”, lighter and have better components. That’s what its designed to be.
 

Rocket Crotch

MotoGP
Oct 18, 2017
miweber929 @miweber929 I'm not going by the BHP numbers claimed for each bike. Perhaps the claimed/advertised numbers are not precisely 90 HP for the 650 and 120 HP for the 600RR, but regardless, the 600RR is still going to be a ~30% gain in peak power over the 650. I'm not comparing them in an "either or" sense, I am saying that even if you already own one of them there are benefits to owning the other. The 600RR is going to be a lot faster and more nimble whereas the 650 gives up some of the raw performance for a more comfortable daily rider type of bike...and I hope that the 2021 model pushes down the prices of the current gen so maybe I can pick one up. :)
 

Itchytoe

2018
CB650F
Dec 15, 2019
You are also comparing two very different engines setups. Torque and HP curves are where the story is. Peak numbers don't really tell much. It's not just a 20-30% power gain going from a 650 to a 600. It's different power delivery. It's different manners both around town and on the highways. 600s are pretty weak down low, where you'll spend most of your time if you commute or live in a city. A 650 class is going to be more user friendly in those situations. A 600 is only going to be a faster bike if you are in the upper half of the rev range. 600s need to scream. 650s don't have that requirement. They sacrifice some top end performance for low end performance.

And if we are being honest here, a 650 has plenty of power for anything you can reasonably do on public roads. If you need more than a 650, you need a track.
 

Rocket Crotch

MotoGP
Oct 18, 2017
You are also comparing two very different engines setups. Torque and HP curves are where the story is. Peak numbers don't really tell much. It's not just a 20-30% power gain going from a 650 to a 600. It's different power delivery. It's different manners both around town and on the highways. 600s are pretty weak down low, where you'll spend most of your time if you commute or live in a city. A 650 class is going to be more user friendly in those situations. A 600 is only going to be a faster bike if you are in the upper half of the rev range. 600s need to scream. 650s don't have that requirement. They sacrifice some top end performance for low end performance.

And if we are being honest here, a 650 has plenty of power for anything you can reasonably do on public roads. If you need more than a 650, you need a track.

If you compare the dyno charts of a 600 and the 650, you will see that the power and torque curves of both engines are very similar at a given RPM, however the 600 revs a lot higher and produces higher peak power. You could mimic the 650's feel on a 600 by swapping out the sprockets, up a few teeth in the rear and maybe dropping a tooth or two in the front...and you'd still have substantially more peak power at the cost of some top speed.

The 650 revs high too... 11K RPM doesn't qualify as a screaming engine for you? It blows away other bikes in this "650" class in terms of performance. But if you're saying that we need to pick one or the other - I don't agree. They're both different enough to warrant owning both if you have the means, and I think the older cbr600rr models will be on sale at good discounts.
 

Itchytoe

2018
CB650F
Dec 15, 2019
If you compare the dyno charts of a 600 and the 650, you will see that the power and torque curves of both engines are very similar at a given RPM, however the 600 revs a lot higher and produces higher peak power. You could mimic the 650's feel on a 600 by swapping out the sprockets, up a few teeth in the rear and maybe dropping a tooth or two in the front...and you'd still have substantially more peak power at the cost of some top speed.

The 650 revs high too... 11K RPM doesn't qualify as a screaming engine for you? It blows away other bikes in this "650" class in terms of performance. But if you're saying that we need to pick one or the other - I don't agree. They're both different enough to warrant owning both if you have the means, and I think the older cbr600rr models will be on sale at good discounts.
If you compare the dyno charts of a 600 to a 650, you will see that the 650s have much flatter curves for both HP and torque all through the rev range. The 600 clearly has an arch in the torque graphs favoring the high end whereas the 650s are pretty dang flat. The sweet spot for hp on the 650s is between about 8,000 and 10,000 RPM, except the honda which likes it a bit higher going all the way to 11,000 RPM before power starts dropping off. That's likely due to it being an inline 4 as opposed to the Ninja and FZ being twins. Honda is an outlier there. Heck, there is a difference of about 5 hp on the Ninja between about 7,000 to 10,000 RPM, on the Honda between 8,750 and 11,500, and between 8,000 and 11,500 on the FZ. That's basically a flat HP curve for 3,000 RPM. You can't ask for a flatter HP curve than that. The sweet spot for the 600 is about 11,500 to 13,500 with a harsh peak. That's a peaky HP curve over 2,000 RPM. The 600 makes its power beyond the rev range of all 3 of those 650s. That's why the 600 is a screamer. You've got to wring their necks to get to their power.

Honestly, if you can say that the Honda 650 "blows away other bikes in this "650" class", then you can see the large differences between the a 650 and a 600. I mean, the CB650R and FZ6R are extremely similar in their curve shapes. The main differences being that the Honda holds on a little longer and is slightly more powerful throughout. Put the 650's dyno on the same scale (0 to 120 hp and 0 to 14,000 RPM) as the 600, and you'll see even more clearly how incredibly flat the 650s power curve is. The Honda's 650r curve looks nothing like the 600's curve. That's why the 650s are good for beginners. They are extremely predictable and aren't likely to have you doing 100 mph without you knowing it. A 600 isn't nearly as predictable, especially for a beginner. The power is very low in the bottom of the RPM range, but has a really high peak and climbs up to it quick. You start with an okay bike for beginners, but then the power ramps up really fast. I really don't see how anybody can say a 600 and 650 are similar riding bikes. People often make dedicated track bikes out of 600s, but I don't think anybody would do that with a 650. Totally different bikes.

Yes, you can mimic the 650's feel on a 600 by going "up a few teeth in the rear and maybe dropping a tooth or two in the front", but DAYUM!! -2+2 is an insane gearing change. That has a phenomenal impact. You don't just lose a little top end with that. You drastically change that bike's manners. With that sprocket change, you go from a top speed of 152 mph to 127 mph. (According to Gearing Commander) That's not "at the cost of some top speed"; that's a top speed reduction of 16.4%. That's 25 mph slower. Honestly, if you're going to do that to the bike, then you got the wrong bike.

Obviously the two dyno charts below are from motorcycle.com and are not my own. All the credit goes to them or whoever they got them from.
 
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Rocket Crotch

MotoGP
Oct 18, 2017
If you compare the dyno charts of a 600 to a 650, you will see that the 650s have much flatter curves for both HP and torque all through the rev range. The 600 clearly has an arch in the torque graphs favoring the high end whereas the 650s are pretty dang flat.

Pick any RPM on the dyno chart and draw a vertical line, note the power and torque the engine puts out for both the 650 and 600 at the same RPM. You will see they both are putting out very similar HP/TQ figures until the 600 pulls away due to its higher redline.

The CBR600 has a stock 16T with rear 43T. This is a ratio of 2.69:1
The CB650F has a stock 15T with rear 42T. This is a ratio of 2.80:1.

The CBR600 is geared for top end while the 650 gearing is mid-range biased, but you will feel the steeper gearing of the 600 as sluggishness down low compared to the 650 feeling "torquey". As I said, you could easily make the CBR600 feel better with a simple sprocket swap.

Honestly, if you can say that the Honda 650 "blows away other bikes in this "650" class", then you can see the large differences between the a 650 and a 600.

Yeah I really don't think you are reading and comprehending my posts. I literally said that the 600 and 650 are both different enough to warrant owning both. You're sitting here trying to dredge up an argument where non exists, because... you're bored? OK...argue with people who already agree with you.

Put the 650's dyno on the same scale (0 to 120 hp and 0 to 14,000 RPM) as the 600, and you'll see even more clearly how incredibly flat the 650s power curve is. The Honda's 650r curve looks nothing like the 600's curve. That's why the 650s are good for beginners. They are extremely predictable and aren't likely to have you doing 100 mph without you knowing it.

I don't know about you but I have no problems getting up to 100 MPH in a hurry on my 650F, and if I didn't glance at the speedo I'd probably be at 120 MPH. Any 600 CC bike is managable for beginners. What makes them good is that they have more than enough power to remain fun once you learn some skills.

A 600 isn't nearly as predictable, especially for a beginner. The power is very low in the bottom of the RPM range, but has a really high peak and climbs up to it quick. You start with an okay bike for beginners, but then the power ramps up really fast. I really don't see how anybody can say a 600 and 650 are similar riding bikes. People often make dedicated track bikes out of 600s, but I don't think anybody would do that with a 650. Totally different bikes.

Disagree. The CBR600 has a very linear and smooth power band. There is no sudden spike in power at any particular RPM and the chart you linked shows this...and the fact that you need to wind it out to 12K RPM to hit its peak power means a rider knows what he's getting. More revs = more power with no surprises along the way. You could say that the the CBR600 being relatively docile at revs below 6000 make it a very good bike to practice on if you are comfortable on it.

Yes, you can mimic the 650's feel on a 600 by going "up a few teeth in the rear and maybe dropping a tooth or two in the front", but DAYUM!! -2+2 is an insane gearing change. That has a phenomenal impact. You don't just lose a little top end with that. You drastically change that bike's manners. With that sprocket change, you go from a top speed of 152 mph to 127 mph. (According to Gearing Commander) That's not "at the cost of some top speed"; that's a top speed reduction of 16.4%. That's 25 mph slower. Honestly, if you're going to do that to the bike, then you got the wrong bike.

So you think the CB650's 17% higher power output compared to other 650 class bikes is slight, but a 16% dip in top speed is drastic? Hmm... :O You can tweak the gearing however you want; my point is simply that if you wanted to make the CBR600 more "livable" for commuter type riding you can give up top speed for improved low to mid range performance. Who are you to say that someone who wants to ride around on a CBR600 in the city "got the wrong bike" because they geared it to be more suited to the environment it is mainly used in? Bikes are regeared and tires swapped from track to track, along with a slew of other tweaks to brakes and suspension settings... so it is really foolish to say that it's wrong to make adjustments to the bike that you prefer for the type of riding you do.


On the second chart it shows the 650F is solidly putting out 17% more power than the others it is being compared to. Pretend the bikes are cars and multiply those numbers by 10 if it helps with the context.

CB650F = 766 HP
Ninja 650 = 647 HP
FZ6R = 654 HP

If you want to call nearly 800 HP "slightly more powerful" than 650 HP then you don't seem to understand the magnitude of the difference there. :D The 650F is a superior bike to all others in the 650 "naked bike" class in just about all relevant categories. A nearly 20% higher power output is not slight for a bike or a car within a given class.
 

baugustine

2014
CBR650F
Staff
May 21, 2016
Ventura, CA
I own both bikes, only mod on both is Akra exhaust. Power delivery is very different from both. The 600 never feels sluggish, as long as you keep it above 3500 rpm, and its smooth, buttery and linear all the way up the curve. It’s impossible to say they are similar if you ride them back to back, it’s just not so, and yes I bought it low mile used and saved a ton of $.
 

Atucker

2019
CBR650R
Aug 18, 2020
Riding Since
2001
Getting off topic but... I'm a Honda guy, but I'll be the first to admit the MT-07 which is used in a lot of the 650 shoot-outs is hand down more fun and better in just about every real world way to the 650's it has been comped against. Honda wins the build quality which is why I went with the 650R, but damn the MT-07 is just flat out fun to ride not to mention faster than the F's and probably R's if that's important to you. (I'm planning on picking up one this spring!)

The 600RR is perfectly fine for the right person on the street. I commuted for years on an 2008 R6 and had no issues, but it's a completely different animal than anything in the 650 class. I haven't rode a 600RR, but given the class I would assume it's at least somewhat comparable to the R6 which again has zero in common with the 650's regardless of what the dyno's show!
 

fogducker

2018
CB650F ABS
Apr 3, 2019
Canada
Getting off topic but... I'm a Honda guy, but I'll be the first to admit the MT-07 which is used in a lot of the 650 shoot-outs is hand down more fun and better in just about every real world way to the 650's it has been comped against. Honda wins the build quality which is why I went with the 650R, but damn the MT-07 is just flat out fun to ride not to mention faster than the F's and probably R's if that's important to you. (I'm planning on picking up one this spring!)

The 600RR is perfectly fine for the right person on the street. I commuted for years on an 2008 R6 and had no issues, but it's a completely different animal than anything in the 650 class. I haven't rode a 600RR, but given the class I would assume it's at least somewhat comparable to the R6 which again has zero in common with the 650's regardless of what the dyno's show!
There is no possible way that 07 is faster than Honda 650s! I own both, not even close. Its Fun tho!
 

Atucker

2019
CBR650R
Aug 18, 2020
Riding Since
2001
There is no possible way that 07 is faster than Honda 650s! I own both, not even close. Its Fun tho!
Cycle world had the 2014 FZ-07 at 3.4sec 0-60 vs. 2014 CBR650F at 3.5. FZ-07 does barely lose by the end of the qtr mile, but who's really out there blasting off 1/4 mile runs on the road. lol. This probably changed with the additional HP bump in the R models, but from everything I can find the MT/FZ-07 is in fact just a hair faster early on and in areas where most riders are cruising.
 
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Itchytoe

2018
CB650F
Dec 15, 2019
Pick any RPM on the dyno chart and draw a vertical line, note the power and torque the engine puts out for both the 650 and 600 at the same RPM. You will see they both are putting out very similar HP/TQ figures until the 600 pulls away due to its higher redline.
Umm, okay.
3400 RPM. 18 hp for the 600 vs 22 hp for the 650. The 650 is putting out 22% more power than the 600. According to you, "A nearly 20% higher power output is not slight", so the 650 is significantly more powerful than the 600 at low RPM. That's not similar. That's significantly different based on your standard.
11,400 RPM. 95 HP for the 600, and 76 for the 650. Now the 600 is 25% more powerful than the 650. Again, that's significantly different based on your standard.
At some point between those two RPMs the HP curves cross. Put that info together and you see that the two power curves are significantly different and the 600's curve is much steeper to accomplish starting out very underpowered, but ending up very overpowered compared to the 650. That's what I mean when I say the 650's have a much flatter hp and torque curve. That holds true even if you read the chart a little differently and get slightly different numbers than I did. (It's not the most exact and easy to read chart...)
If you are math oriented, the derivative of the 600's hp curve is significantly higher than the 650's curve, which is why the 650's are beginner friendly but the 600's aren't.
The CBR600 has a stock 16T with rear 43T. This is a ratio of 2.69:1
The CB650F has a stock 15T with rear 42T. This is a ratio of 2.80:1.

The CBR600 is geared for top end while the 650 gearing is mid-range biased, but you will feel the steeper gearing of the 600 as sluggishness down low compared to the 650 feeling "torquey". As I said, you could easily make the CBR600 feel better with a simple sprocket swap.
But if you gave the 600 a 15/42 swap, it still wouldn't feel like the 650 despite having the exact same gearing ratios because of the engine's power output characteristics. It would still be sluggish down low. You would need 20% lower gearing to get the 600 to put down the same power as the 650 at the low 3400 rpm. That's why the whole dyno graph needs to be taken into account and not just peak numbers. Peak numbers don't tell the whole story. They are a bad way to compare bikes, but a good way to sell them. You've got to get the 600 up to about 8,000 RPM before it starts making more power than the 650. Seriously, the 650 puts out more power than the 600 up to that point. The 600 isn't just 20% more powerful than the 650. It's weaker for half of it's rev range. It only beats the 650 when she's above 8,000. She needs to be in the top half of her rev range. She needs to "scream". She's a screamer.... You get it, right? The 650 on the other hand, is comfortable lower in the rev range. It's not a screamer, even though you can rev it out.
Disagree. The CBR600 has a very linear and smooth power band. There is no sudden spike in power at any particular RPM and the chart you linked shows this...and the fact that you need to wind it out to 12K RPM to hit its peak power means a rider knows what he's getting. More revs = more power with no surprises along the way. You could say that the the CBR600 being relatively docile at revs below 6000 make it a very good bike to practice on if you are comfortable on it.
There is an abrupt jump at 6,000 RPM, a nice spike at 6800, and another at about 8600 after a flat spot. There is also a flat spot just before that abrupt jump at 6,000 RPM. At least on the dyno chart I linked. If you have another one you'd prefer, I'd be happy to take a look at it. Perhaps you've got a nice smooth one. The CB650's hp chart is freakishly smooth though. There is a little flat spot from 7500 to 8,000, but even that isn't a harsh one.
So you think the CB650's 17% higher power output compared to other 650 class bikes is slight, but a 16% dip in top speed is drastic? Hmm... :O You can tweak the gearing however you want; my point is simply that if you wanted to make the CBR600 more "livable" for commuter type riding you can give up top speed for improved low to mid range performance. Who are you to say that someone who wants to ride around on a CBR600 in the city "got the wrong bike" because they geared it to be more suited to the environment it is mainly used in? Bikes are regeared and tires swapped from track to track, along with a slew of other tweaks to brakes and suspension settings... so it is really foolish to say that it's wrong to make adjustments to the bike that you prefer for the type of riding you do.

On the second chart it shows the 650F is solidly putting out 17% more power than the others it is being compared to. Pretend the bikes are cars and multiply those numbers by 10 if it helps with the context.

CB650F = 766 HP
Ninja 650 = 647 HP
FZ6R = 654 HP

If you want to call nearly 800 HP "slightly more powerful" than 650 HP then you don't seem to understand the magnitude of the difference there. :D The 650F is a superior bike to all others in the 650 "naked bike" class in just about all relevant categories. A nearly 20% higher power output is not slight for a bike or a car within a given class.
Stop comparing peak hp numbers. It's useless. It doesn't mean what you think it means. The Ninja is more powerful than the CB up to about 7500 RPM. And the CB only has about 3 more HP on average over the FZ up to about 9,000. 3 hp isn't 20%; it's slightly more power. You've got to be above 7500 RPM for the CB put out more power than the Ninja. Even then, it's got to make up that deficit before it actually breaks even. It's not all about that peak HP number; it's about the whole HP and torque production characteristics.
 

Ive

2020
CBR650R ABS
May 13, 2020
Riding Since
1998
I own both bikes, only mod on both is Akra exhaust. Power delivery is very different from both. The 600 never feels sluggish, as long as you keep it above 3500 rpm, and its smooth, buttery and linear all the way up the curve. It’s impossible to say they are similar if you ride them back to back, it’s just not so, and yes I bought it low mile used and saved a ton of $.
- What do you ride more often?
- Which did you get first? If it was the 600, what made you pick up the additional 650 as a 2nd bike?
- If you could only keep one (now), which would it be?

My last bike was a (now defunct) ZX7R, and I when choosing another bike after a few years of moving and being bike-free, I chose the 650R for its less aggressive ergonomics, now that I'm getting a little bit older. But while I'm very content with it overall, I do admit there are times I wish it had a bit more power. I don't ever care about top-speed, but I love acceleration every once in a while. The extra lower-band torque of a bigger bike would be handy for the odd time getting out of a jam in traffic too.

If the rumored-but-probably-won't-happen CBR1000R ever came to fruition, it would seriously be a contender for being the only faired bike I'd "need" to own (the wife doesn't want to see a bunch of bikes in the garage), but for 99% of the riding I do nowadays, the 650R works well enough, and bonus that full-coverage on it for me is dirt cheap!
 

baugustine

2014
CBR650F
Staff
May 21, 2016
Ventura, CA
- What do you ride more often?
- Which did you get first? If it was the 600, what made you pick up the additional 650 as a 2nd bike?
- If you could only keep one (now), which would it be?

My last bike was a (now defunct) ZX7R, and I when choosing another bike after a few years of moving and being bike-free, I chose the 650R for its less aggressive ergonomics, now that I'm getting a little bit older. But while I'm very content with it overall, I do admit there are times I wish it had a bit more power. I don't ever care about top-speed, but I love acceleration every once in a while. The extra lower-band torque of a bigger bike would be handy for the odd time getting out of a jam in traffic too.

If the rumored-but-probably-won't-happen CBR1000R ever came to fruition, it would seriously be a contender for being the only faired bike I'd "need" to own (the wife doesn't want to see a bunch of bikes in the garage), but for 99% of the riding I do nowadays, the 650R works well enough, and bonus that full-coverage on it for me is dirt cheap!

I ride almost daily (when I'm home, not traveling for business). I can ride all year round here in SoCal. I bought the 650F in 2016 as a left-over (its a 2014). I went to the dealer to buy a 500 they had advertised, and it was already sold. They gave me a better deal on the 650F then the new 2016 500. I was looking for a commuter bike and it's great for that purpose.

With that being said, I always wanted a 600RR. Always. My original plan was to use the 500 for 1-2 years then trade-up to something bigger. My former boss bought a new 600RR in 2006, and I loved it and had it on my "adult list" ever since. I bought the 2012 last year, low miles, dropped by the original owner and parked for 6 years. I pretty much got it for 1/2 of what a 2018/9 would have been, and its basically the same bike. Insanely fun, sounds like a symphony over 9000 rpm and handles like it's on rails. I never get off it without a huge smile on my face.

I've put 13,000 miles on the 650F since I bought it 4 1/2 yrs ago and 4,000 miles on the 600 in 13 months, including a track day at Buttonwillow a few weeks ago.

Part of the discussion above not mentioned in the comparison is the weight difference. The 600RR is 40+ lbs lighter, and its shows. Also, as miweber929 @miweber929 chronicled sometime past (he owned both as well) the suspension on the 600RR is way different, and in a completely different league. The best way to describe any of the 600 Super Sport class bikes is "system designed". Engine, transmission, suspension, ergos all designed as a whole, rather than bolt-on-by-committee. Not that there's anything wrong with the 650, but it's not in the same class and would never be. I do not get those who complain about no low end power. Never experienced that. It pulls from 4000 to 15,000, and sings the whole way, like it enjoys it. The 650 pulls but seems angry and put out by it; able but less willing if you will.

Can't see myself selling either, although if I did get rid of one it would be the 650 and get something more touring-oriented, like a Multistrada or BMW. I know the moto-press are writing obituaries on the 600 class, but I love all of them (R6, ZX6R, 600RR, GSX-R) because you can use them on the street.

IMG_0093.PNG
 

Ive

2020
CBR650R ABS
May 13, 2020
Riding Since
1998
Thanks baugustine @baugustine for your very thorough reply!

I used to every-other-daily my ZX7R during fair weather months (March to October), and remembering the stop-and-go commute in and around Vancouver, BC where I'm originally from (now live in WA state), conjures up memories of soreness. But on the flip-side, I do miss the weekend fun that bike gave me - something I can't always explain is missing from 650 class "sport" bikes, however much I can enjoy them still.

I totally agree that a super sport's dedicated nature and culmination of design parts makes for a exhilarating "one-with" experience. For that reason, I can't completely turn my back on one and would like to see myself getting another as an additional bike in a couple years.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences. Good day to you, sir.
 
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