How big is the torque difference of the 650 vs 600 off the line "casually"?

[xorbe]

(I thought I posted this last night, but I can't figure out if it was deleted, or I didn't click submit. Apologies in advance.)

If you've ridden both bikes, is the 650 notably stronger off the line at first? Just curious. I'm thinking to try Honda's new 600 if it comes to the USA next year. I just pleasure ride the cbr (ie not my main commuting machine) so it's not terribly important really.

For example, I had a 2018 Street Triple 765 RS, and found it frustratingly difficult to jackrabbit launch reliably, had to nail the rpms and clutch slip juuust right, otherwise it bogged down or wanted to lift the front. Somehow that isn't an issue on the latest 3rd gen 2024 765.

The cbr650 is definitely easy to reliably jackrabbit. Curious where the 600 falls if you've sampled both bikes.

 

[kkweon]

In CBR650R, I observed a slightly higher torque at low RPMs. However, it is not a significant difference.

With regards to launching, some individuals may find certain bikes easier to handle than others, while others may experience the opposite. Ultimately, it is a matter of experience and familiarity with the specific bike. If you found CBR650R to be easy, I'd say CBR600RR won't be so different. And, the new one has even so many tech including a wheelie control. I suppose you should be able to pin the throttle all the way easily.

 

[miweber929]

Owned an ‘11 CBR600RR and a ‘14 CBR650F at the same time, it was almost 10 years ago but I remember the RR was not exactly a rocket off the line but wasn’t all that different than the 650 which I don’t feel was all that punchy either.

I mean that was until you hit 8,000 RPM or so and the second injectors kicked in and the RR just pulled and pulled and pulled.

If off the bottom punch is what you want, raise your gearing on whatever you’re getting to make it pull off the line better or get a torquey twin. I’ve heard the Yamaha 700 is a wheelie machine and a R7 geared like a MT-07 could probably be a good choice.

 

[xorbe]

the 650 which I don’t feel was all that punchy either.

Yeah my Ninja 650 is the punchy stop light sleeper. CBR650 is pretty quick off the line too and trivially easy, but it doesn't have that hit that wants to lift the front like the Ninja.

If off the bottom punch is what you want

Not really lol. The 650 vs 600 question is curiosity as I've never ridden a proper 600.
Gosh I might as well itemize the current stable for context:

Speed Triple 1200 - my god bike, though I don't ride it a lot
Speed Twin 1200 - just not liking it, will sell for something else
Street Triple 765 Moto2 - I don't know why I bought another Street Triple
Ducati Monster 937 SP - And I don't know why I bought a Ducati either
CBR650 - I wanted a Honda and I wanted an inline-4, two birds one stone
Ninja 650 - my torquey comfy commuter w/Corbin Gunfighter seat, she's seen some action
ZX4RR - my "small" bike, very pleased even without having flashed yet

Basically it's out with the Speed Twin, and find something else in 2024. Only a couple things have caught my eye, both not in the USA. The new cbr600 and the Norton Commando 961.

 

[Motojack]

Yeah my Ninja 650 is the punchy stop light sleeper. CBR650 is pretty quick off the line too and trivially easy, but it doesn't have that hit that wants to lift the front like the Ninja.



Not really lol. The 650 vs 600 question is curiosity as I've never ridden a proper 600.
Gosh I might as well itemize the current stable for context:

Speed Triple 1200 - my god bike, though I don't ride it a lot
Speed Twin 1200 - just not liking it, will sell for something else
Street Triple 765 Moto2 - I don't know why I bought another Street Triple
Ducati Monster 937 SP - And I don't know why I bought a Ducati either
CBR650 - I wanted a Honda and I wanted an inline-4, two birds one stone
Ninja 650 - my torquey comfy commuter w/Corbin Gunfighter seat, she's seen some action
ZX4RR - my "small" bike, very pleased even without having flashed yet

Basically it's out with the Speed Twin, and find something else in 2024. Only a couple things have caught my eye, both not in the USA. The new cbr600 and the Norton Commando 961.

That's some collection. If it was me I would keep one of the 650's as an all rounder/ commuter get rid of the others and buy a bike with insane performance for when you want a bit of spice. (Thinking a fireblade) and maybe a tenere for some ofroady adventure touring stuff

 

[Cedar650]

Have you considered a Z900? I bought one to replace my CBR650F daily/commuter and I find it a far better bike in every way. It's so damn smooth and easy to ride but also pulls like a train with a really strong midrange. You'd have no problems launching it any way you see fit.

 

[miweber929]

The 650 vs 600 question is curiosity as I've never ridden a proper 600.

So here’s my take on that: there is a marked difference between the “friendly” 650’s and a proper 600 like an R6 or 600RR. While they share DNA it’s just a different animal and there is nothing like a small, light bike screaming and making power at 14,000+ rpm. You know that because of your 400, though, it’s just more.

This will sound controversial but I traded an ’07 1000RR in on the ‘11 600RR and honestly didn’t miss the power all that much if at all. It felt more like my old faithful 929RR which to me was/is that perfect 130hp, decent torque, lightweight, flickable chassis that makes a fun bike. Just know the ‘09 and newer 600RR had a nice midrange bump from the previous Gen which made somewhat less HP on the top but made it a meaty feeling 600. Not a twin, not a triple meaty, but decent. I’ve never ridden a Kawasaki 636 but I imagine that to be sweet middleweight.

Speed Triple 1200 - my god bike, though I don't ride it a lot


Basically it's out with the Speed Twin, and find something else in 2024. Only a couple things have caught my eye, both not in the USA. The new cbr600 and the Norton Commando 961.

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the Speed Triple because that’s on the short list of bikes I’m interested in. I’ve been seeing a lot of good deals on the Speed Triple RR but not finding any great reviews of it. The RS version has some but both are not overwhelmingly positive which shy‘s me away from both.

My real desired new bike is not slated for these shore either (yet) in the XSR900 GP. I have deposit down on one if it does come to the US but I’m thinking at this point it’s not happening, at least not in ‘24. I need to lower my bike count because I’m just not riding much lije I used to and was hoping a new sporty bike and dirt/adventure (either a 450 dual sport or a Transalp) would be the ticket to a smaller bike footprint.

 

[xorbe]

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the Speed Triple because that’s on the short list of bikes I’m interested in. I’ve been seeing a lot of good deals on the Speed Triple RR but not finding any great reviews of it. The RS version has some but both are not overwhelmingly positive which shy‘s me away from both.

I have the RS, you can thank us early adopters for ironing out the initial teething issues, nothing major. The only thing I raise an eyebrow at is how hard it is to refill the coolant, the cap is under the gas tank if not worse, iirc. And apparently difficult to burp (easy to have air bubbles trapped). Might have to lean the bike side to side after an oil refill before starting to clear any vapor locks.

You'll have to pony up $700 to aftermarket flash to unlock 177 to 199HP, and remove the 150 mph limiter.

It's a nice bike, but it always seems to get passed over for the Tuono V4, Streetfighter V4, Super Duke, MT-10, and even the S1000R. Reviewers snub it. Mention it to a major online motorcycle website/YT channel, and they won't even reply in the comments.

The TFT leaves something to be desired. Triumph needs to have a look at Ducati's far superior screen layout. The foot shift lever feels more squishy than typical, lacks a satisfying click.

It's much more stable than a Street Triple. My 765 is just itching to lean, it and the zx4rr are by far my most nibble bikes (honestly I want to install steering dampers on them). Speed Triple is at the very opposite end, it wants to track a straight line, and takes notably more input effort.

It's got more power than I know what to do with, I've only taken 3rd gear to red line with full WOT once, holy sh*t lol.

Rain mode turns it into a 100HP Street Triple.

It's keyless, and has an electronic gas cap that has caused a couple people issues (not open, or won't close).

It's a great road bike, but I suspect most riders are looking for something else. I purchased a second Street Triple, but I probably wouldn't buy a second Speed Triple but a lot of that is I don't need that much power! It's a lot of bike and of course makes a lot more heat when stuck at stop lights.

I added the OEM baby nose fairing and little tinted visor, I prefer that look.

I rarely run it to the top of the revs (if I do only at partial throttle), there's tons of power so I short shift. But man when that throttle is cracked, the bike just surges forward.

Of all the other bikes, the only one I really want to try is the MT-10 with its crossplane engine. But I read that it is more upright, and I prefer the modest lean.

 

[miweber929]

I have the RS, you can thank us early adopters for ironing out the initial teething issues, nothing major. The only thing I raise an eyebrow at is how hard it is to refill the coolant, the cap is under the gas tank if not worse, iirc. And apparently difficult to burp (easy to have air bubbles trapped). Might have to lean the bike side to side after an oil refill before starting to clear any vapor locks.

You'll have to pony up $700 to aftermarket flash to unlock 177 to 199HP, and remove the 150 mph limiter.

It's a nice bike, but it always seems to get passed over for the Tuono V4, Streetfighter V4, Super Duke, MT-10, and even the S1000R. Reviewers snub it. Mention it to a major online motorcycle website/YT channel, and they won't even reply in the comments.

The TFT leaves something to be desired. Triumph needs to have a look at Ducati's far superior screen layout. The foot shift lever feels more squishy than typical, lacks a satisfying click.

It's much more stable than a Street Triple. My 765 is just itching to lean, it and the zx4rr are by far my most nibble bikes (honestly I want to install steering dampers on them). Speed Triple is at the very opposite end, it wants to track a straight line, and takes notably more input effort.

It's got more power than I know what to do with, I've only taken 3rd gear to red line with full WOT once, holy sh*t lol.

Rain mode turns it into a 100HP Street Triple.

It's keyless, and has an electronic gas cap that has caused a couple people issues (not open, or won't close).

It's a great road bike, but I suspect most riders are looking for something else. I purchased a second Street Triple, but I probably wouldn't buy a second Speed Triple but a lot of that is I don't need that much power! It's a lot of bike and of course makes a lot more heat when stuck at stop lights.

I added the OEM baby nose fairing and little tinted visor, I prefer that look.

I rarely run it to the top of the revs (if I do only at partial throttle), there's tons of power so I short shift. But man when that throttle is cracked, the bike just surges forward.

Of all the other bikes, the only one I really want to try is the MT-10 with its crossplane engine. But I read that it is more upright, and I prefer the modest lean.

Thanks for that review.

Another local rider reached out to me on a Facebook group after I showed interest in an RS to give me some honest feedback and said it’s a year or two owned bike but doesn’t see it as a long term purchase. He said while fun, it’s a bit taxing to ride because as you said there’s so much power that’s untapped, which is something I purposely “gave up“ 10 years ago because the thrill of it doesn’t outweigh ride-ability and handling, you’re always in watch-it mode and the bike is a bit sluggish.

I think I’ve determined to hold out for the XSR GP or see if Ducati pulls their head out of their ass in ‘25 and updates the SS with cruise control which is my one hold back on the bike. I may do some updating/upgrading in the dirtbike area which should placate me for this season if the Yamaha doesn’t make it to the US.

 

[xorbe]

Triumph did keep the power manageable and very linear, it's not hard to ride at all (and why I shy away from ecu flashing it). It's twist and go with the nannies enabled (sport mode not track mode). That aspect is why I crossed the KTM off the list, SDR is a torque monster, sure it has the nannies too but riders say it's still awfully punchy, no matter what you do it's still a 1301cc twin. I am more at ease on the Speed Triple than the 937cc Monster or 1200cc Speed Twin -- the latter I have accidentally lofted the front quite high. Those big twins are mean. Speed Triple has never let me do anything more than just barely float the front tire before setting it down, the electronics are waaay better than how my '18 765 RS was (cut the gas!) man that was primitive traction/wheelie control.

I thought the Speed Triple was tall until I got the Monster SP. Now when I ride the Speed Triple it feels conveniently low, hah.

My biggest gripe is heat in the summer, the frame does get smoking hot if not moving.

 

[xorbe]

XSR GP

Oh yes, I need those blunt noses to come back! I don't care if they aren't as fast at 150 mph ... I don't prefer the pointy nosed beak bikes! I don't think I would jump on the XSR GP overall, but that nose.