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CBR650R cbr650r - runs too hot and the garage doesn't know why.

kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
Hello

So I am a new biker ( got my licence at the end of August ) and i bought a second hand 2019 cbr650r with less than 4000km 2 weeks later at the begining of September.

I used it for 4 days, then I go to the garage for a service and because the bike got too hot on my way to work ( red light and everything....I had to stop for 20 minutes, then again on my way home )

Since then the garage has the bike, ie. 1 full month, and they confirmed me someting is wrong with the cooling system but they don't know what !

They changed the thermostat, then the radiator and now they are waiting a new water pump end of next week to replace it, even if they are not sure it will fixed the problem.

The bike still has its warranty so I am not really worried but I am REALLY frustrated as I only used the bike for 4 days and it will spent almost a month and half ( 40 days ) and the garage doesn't have a clue about what's wrong.

Any idea what it could be and what I should do ?

( PS : I live in France )
 

Itchytoe

2018
CB650F
Dec 15, 2019
So you will have a new radiator, new thermostat, and new water pump? The only things left in the cooling system will be hoses, the engine block, and a sensor that reads coolant temp. The most likely source of failure of those three items is the sensor.

How do you know the bike is overheating? Is it just the warning light coming on? If so, maybe the bike isn't overheating at all. It could be a bad sensor that is reading too high making you think it is overheating. Ask if the garage can get some temperature readings on the radiator and engine block with one of those infrared temp guns. If the block and radiator are about 200 degrees, you aren't overheating. It might simply be a bad sensor.

You could try to take it to a different garage. Sometimes a new person trying to figure things out works.
 

kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
So you will have a new radiator, new thermostat, and new water pump?
Yep exactly !

How do you know the bike is overheating? Is it just the warning light coming on?
The bike was really hot ( I am a rookie so I do not have a lot of experience yet, but the bike was REALLY hot ), the garage took it for a spin and they confirmed something was wrong as, I quote, "half the motor is cooled down but not the other half !"

Ask if the garage can get some temperature readings on the radiator and engine block with one of those infrared temp guns.
This is exactly what they did ;)

It might simply be a bad sensor.
Now that you're talking about it...when they changed the thermostat they told me that they changed it even if it was working fine when they did test it outside the bike : the problem was that once mounted back, sometime it worked, sometime it did not. So it looks like it could be the sensor...
Is it that complicated to change the sensor(s) ?
If not then it seems crazy to me to change a radiator, a water pump...without checking the sensors !

You could try to take it to a different garage. Sometimes a new person trying to figure things out works.
I thought about it but I have to ride like 100klm and I don't want Honda to take this as an excuse to nullify the warranty.

Thanks A LOT for help ;)
( and sorry for my English )
 

Itchytoe

2018
CB650F
Dec 15, 2019
Ah, if it physically feels hot, the warning light is on, and the garage confirmed it with a temp gun, it's definitely overheating. No doubt about it.

The sensor isn't that hard to replace, so it wouldn't surprise me if they replaced it if they thought it might be faulty.

If half the engine is cool, but the other half is not, I would start to think that the passages through the block are plugged. That would cause weird flow through the block and overheating. There could have been some debris in a hose when the bike was first put together. Maybe a piece of a gasket on the floor that somehow found its way into a hose. I don't know how to check for that kind of problem, or how to get debris out, but it's a possibility. Other than that, I don't know. Definitely keep us updated when you figure out what the real issue is.
 

Road Hog

2014
CBR650F ABS
May 4, 2017
Thailand
I agree with Itchytoe, as I been riding my bike from new since 2014 in very hot weather and never had a overheating problem. So yes check the sensor out as they can go at anytime. I do change my water more often than what the book says because of the heat and use only Honda radiator water.
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
Riding Since
1975
This should be a fairly easy fix and fairly easy troubleshoot so the fact that’s it’s been a month and they still don’t have a repair makes me question them. I’m surprised they went the route of swapping the radiator without swapping the sensor, that would have been one of my earliest replacements and super easy to do.

Cooling systems are fairly simple. For mechanical parts you have the water pump, thermostat and temperature sensor. Then you have the radiator which is your heat “exchanger” device, coolant passages throughout the engine, the expansion tank and of course the hoses connecting it all. Within those items something isn’t working, they just need to find what. Sounds like they are working on it but wow, a month is a long time.

Good luck!!!!
 

kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
Thanks you all for your messages !

I'll call the garage this week to know if they changed the sensors.

I'll keep you updated ;)
 

kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
So, I call the garage myself around 2PM : they confirmed me they did received the Honda order today around 12h00.

No news from them during the afternoon so I just called them after 5PM ( ie. more than 5 hours after receiving the Honda order ) : the water pump is not in it.

They should received it Friday 23th...or not !

I am just stunned by how I am treated as a customer, this is amazing.
 

Road Hog

2014
CBR650F ABS
May 4, 2017
Thailand
That's Honda! When I was changing my spark plugs and didn't have the right tool for changing them. I rang up Honda to see if I could buy one.

They said bring your bike in and we will change them. Well I told them I had my bike all striped down and that I lived more than 150klm from them. Than

they hung up on me, so I had to do some crazy mods. to get the tool that I had to work. Honda in Thailand really only want to sell bikes.
 

kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
So, some ( bad :banghead: ) news...

Honda did change the water pump this Tuesday (5 days late, but I'm used to it ...) and guess what ? The problem is still there !

I explained to them that after more than 6 weeks of troubleshooting it was unacceptable and that I want them to stop working on the bike.

I then told them that I was ready to buy the new CBR650R '21 and sign the order paper within the day if they buy back my faulted ( and under warranty ) CBR650R '19 at the same price as I bough it, a little less than 8000€.

They did offer me 7100€ but ONLY once they know what the real issue with the bike is and proposed a CBR650R '21 at the price of... 9100€, which is simply the public price !
( Once I pointed this out to them, the guy told me : "We are offering the 157€ of the vehicle registration card tax" ...which is the least of thing as I already paid it for my current CBR650R '19 that I cannot use :finger: )

Of course I turned down their miserable offer and told them that an independent expert from my insurance company will come within the next days, then I'll go in front of a judge, which will cost them WAY more than the bike price because of the additional costs and days off I'll have to take.

I'll come back with some more news once the independent expert find the issue, he's planned to check the bike tomorrow or next Monday !

To be continued !
 

kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
So I got a panicked call from the garage on Tuesday after my insurance company Expert asked them for an appointment to check on the bike the next day.

I explained to them that after 7 weeks I think it is time to ask help from outside expert ( I warned them 1 week ago, maybe they though I was bluffing ) and that I also need to protect myself ( as it seems that nobody is able to find the problem on my bike ) if I want to go to court to have a working bike, or money.

Obviously I am not patient enough ( the bike is immobilized since almost 2 months ) and everything is fine with my bike, honda and the fact that it's not a problem if the garage never calls ( They never honored their "we'll call you back" policy ) : the guy from the garage did not understand why "I am doing all this !"

...then he told me they do not want me as a customer anymore.
( before adding they did not sell me the bike so they did not have to accept it in the first time...yea right !)

I think I'll just need to wait for the Expert report then.

Am I crazy or I am really treated like a piece of shit ?
 

volkein

2014
CB650F ABS
Jan 28, 2020
Yeah, typical bullshit from dumbasses when you put their incompetence to their faces. I despise dealers, only a few are professionals and take responsibility for their mistakes.
Suing them is up to you, but your are heading toward long procedures who takes forever and most of the time this ends with a 50/50 share of the costs.

For your future servicings my advice is to find a good mechanic and never comeback.
 

Road Hog

2014
CBR650F ABS
May 4, 2017
Thailand
Your not crazy! They treat you like they treat me. If I were you I would try and get my money back and say the hell with Honda, and you can take that to the bank.
 

Itchytoe

2018
CB650F
Dec 15, 2019
It sounds like you've been patient enough. I've put pressure on repair facilities after just a few days before. If they are actually waiting for parts to be shipped to them from Honda, then it's not their fault. However, in 7 weeks, you could have had any parts shipped to that dealer from anywhere in the world, several times.

I know repair times and procedures vary between countries, but France is certainly not a developing country that would have a hard time fixing something like a Honda motorcycle. If you had a Hongqi L5, then I'd say you might be expecting too much too fast and should give them a little more time.

A call from an insurance agent about looking at a problematic motorcycle shouldn't create any panic for any repair facility. If they are doing their job and giving your bike an honest attempt at repair but not finding the issue, they would welcome someone who might be able to find the issue. The only reasons I can think of that would generate any kind of panic involve them not doing their job properly.

Like Baugustine said, maybe the regional Honda office can get some results for you. Here in the States, they can be helpful.
 

Atucker

2019
CBR650R
Aug 18, 2020
Riding Since
2001
Is this a Honda factory shop? I'm shocked to hear the treatment you've endured. I've never had anything but stellar service from Honda shops in the US. Sorry to hear about your saga, but its definitely time to get Honda Corp. involved.
 

kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
Have you contacted the Regional office of Honda to get intervention? Here in the US, that gets a dealers attention when the Corp office has to referee a disgruntled customer.

Like Baugustine said, maybe the regional Honda office can get some results for you. Here in the States, they can be helpful.

Is this a Honda factory shop? I'm shocked to hear the treatment you've endured. I've never had anything but stellar service from Honda shops in the US. Sorry to hear about your saga, but its definitely time to get Honda Corp. involved.

Indeed : I did call the Honda French Customers Service last Monday to explain the situation and they just leaved me a message this afternoon stating that the problem has been found and the bike will be available next week.

It seems that the issue was a...simple perforated hose at the bottom of the engine !
They spend more than 1000€ to replace the thermostat, the radiator and the water pump, but the issue came from a simple hose...maybe that why they are so angry ;)

I hope this is really the issue, we'll see ;)

I live near the Swiss border so I think I'll do my next maintenance in Geneva, in the meantime the Expert told me he is going to organize a meeting with the garage, the seller and myself so we can all come to an happy ending ( which mean : I need to be compensated for this situation )
 
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kolargol

2019
CBR650R ABS
Sep 14, 2020
Riding Since
2020
I have the bike ;) but even the last days were a joke !

I've been told the bike will be ready for tuesday, then no for thursday, then thursday afternoon I received a SMS that the bike will be ready Friday morning...

I came Friday morning at 10h30, the bike was indeed repaired....but they had not done the mandatory service I asked for and the manager of the workshop refused to do it because of the "expert situation".

Anyway, I REALLY got angry and after a few minutes of heavy discussion with the manager of the dealership they gave me another bike to go home and agreed to do the service in the afternoon.

Man...I really like the bike...but Honda experience is really really bullshit.

I hope it will be different in Switzerland.
 

Road Hog

2014
CBR650F ABS
May 4, 2017
Thailand
Most of the servicing on the Honda is not that hard. I have never taken my bike to a Honda Dealership for service. Remember the warranty is only good for 1 year so find yourself a good repair shop, maybe one that will let you work with them on your bike. Don't give up!
 
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