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CBR650F CBR650F Akrapovic with/without baffle fuelling test
- Jun 30, 2019
Interesting. But, if you were "too lean (more than 15.0/1)" at highway cruising throttle/rpm, would that not be a concern worth addressing with a fuel controller? Also, would 'rideability' and power across the range improve with a controller? More of a concern if you had increased intake with a high flow air filter of course.
I've used a fuel controller on my dual sport for many years. It has a modified intake, high flow filter and full system Yoshi. The controller has proved invaluable. Just my take of course.
I've used a fuel controller on my dual sport for many years. It has a modified intake, high flow filter and full system Yoshi. The controller has proved invaluable. Just my take of course.
- Thread starter
- #3
From the little I know about ICE, I think the cruise AFR is OK at that level.
Under heavy load and high rpms I think you're supposed to be rich for cooling and good combustion proliferation.
I agree rideability would be way better with a map. On/off throttle at the moment is jerky and annoying.
The reason I undertook the dyno runs was purely because I was scared about what I read on this forum and other online sources, and I wanted evidence rather than hearsay.
People say that the exhaust runs way too lean and will damage the engine over time.
Some on here did say I'd be fine though. But do an online search for motorcycle exhausts and AFRs and you will see very trusted YouTube channels and magazines saying you NEED a tune after a full system or end can upgrade.
Under heavy load and high rpms I think you're supposed to be rich for cooling and good combustion proliferation.
I agree rideability would be way better with a map. On/off throttle at the moment is jerky and annoying.
The reason I undertook the dyno runs was purely because I was scared about what I read on this forum and other online sources, and I wanted evidence rather than hearsay.
People say that the exhaust runs way too lean and will damage the engine over time.
Some on here did say I'd be fine though. But do an online search for motorcycle exhausts and AFRs and you will see very trusted YouTube channels and magazines saying you NEED a tune after a full system or end can upgrade.
- May 30, 2014
12.7 to 13.4 is bang on the sweet spot for max power.
Unless you have a horrible flat spot, no need to tweak that.
13.2 is the target. And a pc5 will get you there, but the cost is probably nor worth the gains.
If you're running way above 15, you're in danger of burning a piston up. 14.7 is an ideal afr for emissions output.
J
Unless you have a horrible flat spot, no need to tweak that.
13.2 is the target. And a pc5 will get you there, but the cost is probably nor worth the gains.
If you're running way above 15, you're in danger of burning a piston up. 14.7 is an ideal afr for emissions output.
J
I’m really trying to keep my assholiness to a minimum, especially lately, but you did NOT read that information on this forum.
We all have been VERY clear you do not NEED a fuel controller on this bike, especially with an Akra exhaust or the like, due to the fact it’s a closed loop fuel injection system. You CAN get one, it won’t hurt at all, but never has it been said that it’s needed. Every time someone says something similar suggesting you need one, they have been corrected.
- Thread starter
- #6
I apologise that my post brought that out in you, and I appreciate that you are working on it.
I tried to make it clear that some people said I'd be fine. That exact sentence in my post was relating to your advice I think... However, I deal in evidence and not hearsay, so I undertook the dyno runs to provide myself with said evidence and to share on this forum for the benefit of others in my situation.
I'll delete the thread and allow people to follow the advice online.
I don't think this forum is necessarily for me.
Regards
I tried to make it clear that some people said I'd be fine. That exact sentence in my post was relating to your advice I think... However, I deal in evidence and not hearsay, so I undertook the dyno runs to provide myself with said evidence and to share on this forum for the benefit of others in my situation.
I'll delete the thread and allow people to follow the advice online.
I don't think this forum is necessarily for me.
Regards
- May 30, 2014
Please leave the thread. It has useful information in it for others.
I would say that leaving after one disagreement is a little bit of an overreaction, however. Give it a day or two and try again.
J
I would say that leaving after one disagreement is a little bit of an overreaction, however. Give it a day or two and try again.
J
- Thread starter
- #8
- May 30, 2014
That said, do you try one more time in case they were "having a bad day" or judge them on one experience and never go back?
I try to avoid making generalisations from small datasets, but YMMV
J
I try to avoid making generalisations from small datasets, but YMMV
J
No reason to delete your thread, go away nor to take what I said as a personal attack, that was not my intention or even after rereading, what was written. The staff here also deal in evidence and facts and not hearsay; your words "you read it here" were not facts, so I corrected that before it spread.
The dyno results and the time you took to put this together are great, and it’s much appreciated to the current and future members who are and will be looking at making a change to the exhaust as they now have hard numbers telling them they are good instead of just being told it’s fine.
For that we are all very grateful.
However, if you can’t take being corrected for posting the same type of misinformation you’re also trying to stop without threatening to take your info and leave, saying this forum is not for me, and staff is unfriendly, etc., well, sorry to see you go, but maybe it’s not necessarily the place for you.
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Those statements, however, do have merit depending on the bike, OEM tune, ECU and fuel injection system. There are many out there that do NEED a controller, this bike just isn’t one of them.
Actually, we suggest you don’t.
- Sep 23, 2019
I'm assuming it's not going to be possible to pull those dyno/afr numbers back, eh? I had just jumped back to this thread to show a friend the changes these things can make to compare to the changes a similar setup on his bike and they're gone. I for one feel that numbers acquired from the dyno (though theyre not all consistent) are a great jumping off point and that'd be good for everyone to see. Not take as gospel, but as additional information.
- May 30, 2014
If memory serves, it was between 12.5 and 13.0 he recorded, and 12.7 to 13.4 with the baffle out.
I don’t see it, unfortunately, and unless
@GPJake can somehow retrieve it I believe it’s lost.Sorry, I was not expecting D @DrMike to take such exception to my disagreeing with a statement and had no idea he’d pull the info. Too bad, it was solid work that he spent time, money and energy getting together and posting.
It’s a shame not to share it, even just to spite me, if nothing else.
But I guess we all now know the 650 series runs fine without a tuner, and the AFR is is in the zone of correct. He had the dyno runs to prove it.
Here are the #'s:
Edit: To comment on the thread - don't take it personally. Not just this thread - any thread. I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that every moderator has good intentions and is a good person. I say this from years of interactions & thousands of words read... So whatever that's worth
Edit: To comment on the thread - don't take it personally. Not just this thread - any thread. I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that every moderator has good intentions and is a good person. I say this from years of interactions & thousands of words read... So whatever that's worth
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I have a suggestion for everyone who is thinking about installing a PCV because this bike runs way too lean. it could have saved me $600 after spending 1400 on my pipe!
Go to download section on Dynojet website and download the Powercomander software plus the Akra map.
The Akra map is even leaner in ~ %70 of cells ( "-" means leaner).
My custom map is way leaner at 0 throttle (to control the pops and crackles)... and to be honest, I have not seen any major difference.
Some say a Dyno Tune along side with PAIR removal will dramatically change the behavior ...
This may not be quite related to the thread but its here for the record.
AKRA RUNS FINE WITH NO TUNE OR FUEL CONTROLLER/ECU FLUSH
Go to download section on Dynojet website and download the Powercomander software plus the Akra map.
The Akra map is even leaner in ~ %70 of cells ( "-" means leaner).
My custom map is way leaner at 0 throttle (to control the pops and crackles)... and to be honest, I have not seen any major difference.
Some say a Dyno Tune along side with PAIR removal will dramatically change the behavior ...
This may not be quite related to the thread but its here for the record.
AKRA RUNS FINE WITH NO TUNE OR FUEL CONTROLLER/ECU FLUSH
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Thanks for the info fogducker, and my Thanks to the staff here also that keep this forum my go-to for real info about my bike. Just bolted (and spring-ed?) a full Akra system on my bike and a quick search brought up this thread. Am machining up a couple pair plates and then I'm good to go. Take care everyone, and have a great riding season!
if losing couple of pounds doesnt really matter to you, you may opt blocking the air intake hose instead of removing the who mechanism. Trust me, its quite a project! look for the thread in this forum. give it a shot first and then if you were satisfied with the results, remove it all.
Thanks, that's kind of what I was thinking... Need to get a cap for the airbox anyway. I'm good with pulling all the extra parts off though. I'll post a drawing for the block-off plates when I get back home and can finish them up. Maybe folks here can just get them made at a local machine shop. I'm on the road for work a.t.m. , installing a machine that packages virus testing kits... Stay safe everyone!
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