2023 Hornet Twin, the future?

JDude · Sep 17, 2022

Will there be a CB/CBR 650 in the future? If the new Hornet 755cc twin is 50lbs less than the current 650cc the numbers will be compelling.

”The new Hornet will be powered by a 755cc Parallel-Twin 8-valve Unicam engine with a 270° crank. Honda claims an output of 90.5 hp at 9500 rpm, 55.3 lb-ft. at 7250 rpm, with “exhilarating top-end punch” and a “full-fat measure of mid-range torque.””

The CBR 750 RR four would be awesome! But haven’t seen the same coverage as the Hornet, unless my google is missing something?

shark650 · Sep 18, 2022

2023 Honda Hornet Engine Details Confirmed - Motorcycle.com

Honda confirmed the new 2023 Hornet will be powered by a 755cc Parallel-Twin eight-valve Unicam engine claiming 90.5 hp and 55.3 lb-ft.

www.motorcycle.com

Atucker · Sep 18, 2022

If the final version looks anything like what is being shown now the CBR650 and CB650R will be safe. The performance is compelling, but the design doesn't appeal to me at all.

miweber929 · Sep 18, 2022

JDude said:
Will there be a CB/CBR 650 in the future? If the new Hornet 755cc twin is 50lbs less than the current 650cc the numbers will be compelling.

”The new Hornet will be powered by a 755cc Parallel-Twin 8-valve Unicam engine with a 270° crank. Honda claims an output of 90.5 hp at 9500 rpm, 55.3 lb-ft. at 7250 rpm, with “exhilarating top-end punch” and a “full-fat measure of mid-range torque.””

The CBR 750 RR four would be awesome! But haven’t seen the same coverage as the Hornet, unless my google is missing something?

The couple problems I see are the fact that first, everyone is spending the majority of their time and effort going after EVs and I don’t see them putting their whole effort into new, fuel driven models so it’ll be a parts bin special not really different than current offerings.

Secondly, Honda lately has not been pushing the envelope with performance (or lightness for that matter) so while a 755cc twin with a 270 degree crank might feel and sound like an L-twin, their 90hp will likely show up in a package as 60hp at the rear wheel in a 500lb plus cycle. Not really a “fun” bike: think Ninja 650 performance but with a 755cc displacement. Probably the DCT transmission as well.

Third, they are not pushing sport styled bikes so you’ll find this motor in a smaller Africa Twin and probably a CTX style commuter/cruiser before a sporty standard. With my feared power output from above, while a 750 it will get eaten by the 650.

As a final point, purely editorial in nature, once I heard about this motor a few weeks ago, I thought I’m disappointed that this will probably spell the end for the 650 4cylinder. Everything new has been a parallel twin with the unicam (Rebels 300s and 500s, the 1100 twin) for several years now, it’s clear that’s their direction. Cheaper to make as you only need half the engine parts, easier to package, etc. As long as you’re not looking for peak power a twin is a good power plant and cost, not performance, has been their driving force going on 20 years now. This will fit perfectly.

That's too bad: I miss the days when Honda was the best build quality, always pushing interesting models, pushed power to weight ratios, and put effort into their builds. My Tracer was obviously built to a price but doesn’t feel as cheap as my 650F did, it wasn’t bad but there were things that made you see it. The new Hondas just aren’t tripping my trigger.

Dankotaru · Sep 25, 2022

According to this article citing Swiss vehicle certification data, the new Hornet has a model designation of CB750, will have the newly-developed 90hp 755cc unicam P-twin engine discussed above, a 6-speed manual instead of a CVT or DCT, a 55.9 in wheelbase, and a wet weight around 405 lbs:

https://www.motorcycle.com/new-mode...details-emerge-in-vehicle-certifications.html

The concept sketches all look like a KTM Duke to me. I'm curious to see how the production model will look.

I also wonder if it spells the end of the 650 line. This new Hornet and its engine will be used for multiple derivative motorcycles, similar to what Aprilia has done with its RS 660, Tuono 660, and Tuareg 660. The new P-twin Hornet will have similar power, more torque, lighter weight, and likely better fuel economy than the CB650, so it's not hard to see it as a replacement for the 650 series of bikes. Especially if Honda also makes a retro-styled or 'neo-cafe' version.

In addition to the new Hornet, a new Transalp 750 is coming out using this engine and chassis;

It's understandable, but disappointing, to think of it also replacing the CBR650R. I suspect such a bike would be more like the R7 than the RS660 - a sporty bike with a very street-able but relatively low-revving engine that leaves you kinda disappointed on a race track. According to the Japanese magazine Young Machine, a sportsbike built on this new platform is in the works, along with a possibly retro-styled Hawk 75.

Honda might be abandoning middle-weight inline fours altogether, but I hope not. It makes sense from a business perspective. The new twin will be cheaper to produce and likely more price and feature competitive against the SV650, MT-07, Trident and all their respective derivatives. But I think it will be a loss to the brand not to have a Honda middleweight four in the market.

edit: found a rendering of the production bike based on all the concept sketches released by Honda. It kinda looks like the older 650F design with some KTM influence. We'll probably know how close this is to the real thing come November.

victorkkq · Oct 4, 2022

Motojack · Oct 4, 2022

We will have to rename the forum to the 650/750 owners club

Naldo · Oct 5, 2022

I wonder is the hornet a replacement for the cb650r? Motobob on YouTube made this comment yesterday on his hornet review video. I have a 2018 650f and was planning to upgrade to the 650r next year. Not keen on the hornet at a first look so might order a cb650r before they are phased out. 🤔

miweber929 · Oct 5, 2022

Take this for what you will, it's just some dude rambling but he says it's the replacement for the 650R platform. Be interesting to see what the thought is after people actually get to ride it.

Motojack · Oct 5, 2022

If they do replace our bike with it then it could be the last of the i4 middle weights. I just came from a V-twin, I aint going back

ECHELONWARRIOR · Oct 5, 2022

Motojack said:
If they do replace our bike with it then it could be the last of the i4 middle weights. I just came from a V-twin, I aint going back

THATS THE SPIRIT! I4 WAY BETTER SOUND IMO

MotoDonner · Oct 5, 2022

If only it didn't look like someone smacked a hornet against a wall

Atucker · Oct 5, 2022

Not a fan of the look, but I also hated the look of the MT07/09 and look at how those sell. Obviously I'm not the target market.

oni · Oct 5, 2022

I don't know if i like it or not, have to see one in person, the look is in line with what other makers offer, have to say that I like the mt09, maybe more that this new hornet

CBR650r82 · Oct 12, 2022

I think in the colors black and red the bike does look good. I promised myself I would not by another bike before my CBR650R is worn out. Think I am good for at least next 18 years (approx 8k km's a year)😂 but do hope there is still an inline4 then.

Motojack · Oct 12, 2022

I am cautiously optimistic that motorbikes powered by dinosaur juice will still be a thing in 18 years

Cláudio Nogueira · Oct 12, 2022

Naldo said:
I wonder is the hornet a replacement for the cb650r? Motobob on YouTube made this comment yesterday on his hornet review video. I have a 2018 650f and was planning to upgrade to the 650r next year. Not keen on the hornet at a first look so might order a cb650r before they are phased out. 🤔

I think sales and production costs of both will tell! Probably they will coexist for a couple of years for Honda to decide.

drew95gt · Apr 21, 2023

The reveal of the new Hornet pushed me to buy my CB650R. The styling of the Hornet is not good imo…looks like a slightly modified 500F, and I definitely prefer the 4 cylinder to a p-twin. I’ve wanted a CB since the model launched and I was afraid that they would be replaced by the Hornet in the next year or so.

Cláudio Nogueira · Apr 21, 2023

Hello.

I tested the new Hornet. It´s a good and reasonably priced motorcycle, especially if you value gadgetry and connectivity, which I personally don’t find determinant.
Engine was impressive, vague front steering at higher speeds no so much. Found it a very good motorcycle to ride around town, particularly on Évora (PT) coble stone twisty streets.
But… I had the CB650 as a reference point and having it in mind, nothing surprised me particularly.
Engine is punchy and more available but still prefer the CB 4pot. No question about it, for me!
Design is not a reference to me, the bike is somehow vulgar and has lack of personality. Build quality is OK for the price range.
A typical Honda: a bike that works well but is not particularly appealing in anything.

Would I buy one? Possibly.
Would I change my CB650 for this Hornet? NEVER!

Redrocket · Apr 21, 2023

Same here. I even pre-ordered a Hornet but when I saw one I thought I would buy a CBR650R instead. 270 degree twins are getting very commonplace (understandably as they are adaptable to various styles of bike and are relatively cheap to make). In 50+ years of riding I’ve never had a l/c inline four, so I thought I’d get one while I still can. I doubt that the CB/R 650 range will last much longer. Pleased with my choice.