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All 650's Ninja 650R vs Honda CB/CBR650 trends?

ducatiman

Vendor
2019
CBR650R
Jul 27, 2019
New York
Being a member of various Honda and Kaw forums, I'm noticing a distinct lack of any starting/stalling/ idling/revving/ ticking/ buzzing problems posted here on this Honda 650 forum, while a 650R Kaw forum is inundated with numerous problem related posts. Not saying every Honda ever made is immune, but evident its reliable in comparison?

Any former 650R owners here to offer experiences and insights? I've never owned one, so I'm curious as to what gives?
 

OkiCB

2019
CB650R ABS
Sep 23, 2019
Okinawa, Japan
You mean the rattle that vibrates everything from around 4300rpm til about 6000rpm? If you are, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :sorry:
 

Dankotaru

2019
CBR650R ABS
Jul 5, 2019
7000' ASL, USA
I looked at the Ninja 650, and really like the updates Kawasaki has given it for 2020, but the complaints of that bike and the complaints on the Ninja 400 forums made me wary of buying either. I looked hard at the Ninja 400 as my new bike- it's very light, quick, and cheap. Perfect little sporty commuter that offers more features and more fun the the CBR500R. But, because it was a new bike, I decided to wait and see how the ownership experience was for other riders before buying. The Ninja forum became full of posts about transmission issues and other problems. Looking into bigger alternatives, the Ninja 650 seemed to have a lot of issues as well.
I had my previous Honda for 3 years with zero issues, and that seemed to be the norm for the bike, so the chance of having problems with idling/stalling/fueling/etc.. made me wary of switching to Kawasaki. Then Honda updated the 650 with everything I wished the older F had, and I was sold.
Some people thought the new Honda 650 was too expensive when compared to the Ninja 650, but I didn't think so when really looking at everything you get for the price difference (better brakes, better suspension, more power, etc..). I think Kawasaki has really gone after the 'value' position of the motorcycle market, so their competition seems more expensive within the same catagories, but this business strategy might cost them long term owners if their reliability has suffered. I know the reliability of my two Honda's will be a big factor when deciding on my next bike.
 

Robbymag

2015
CBR650F ABS
Oct 24, 2019
My dads mate was a bike mechanic for 60+ years raced them on track and off road worked on all types of bikes to quote him he always says a Honda you can shoot it and it would still go all the others look the part but aren’t
 

ducatiman

Vendor
2019
CBR650R
Jul 27, 2019
New York
Don't mention the mildly annoying rattling noise !
You mean the rattle that vibrates everything from around 4300rpm til about 6000rpm? If you are, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :sorry:

Rattle? are you referring to the 650 Honda engine? If so, you're either being hypercritical, sarcastic or something loose. Yeah, I'm experiencing very minor vibes at certain RPM, not even worth mention....but RATTLING? No way, not on my 650. If so on yours, I'd suggest you check your shit out, SOMETHING is clearly wrong.

Out of the few issues posted here on Honda 650....many seem to be owner created via modding (in some cases) , removing restrictions or doing "add-ons". This forum relatively boring in respect to real, genuine issues... electrical or fuel.

Compared to KawiForums, 650R section posted numerous idling, starting, poor running, cutting out, noisy valve train .....WOW. It seems busy over there!
 

ducatiman

Vendor
2019
CBR650R
Jul 27, 2019
New York
I looked at the Ninja 650, and really like the updates Kawasaki has given it for 2020, but the complaints of that bike and the complaints on the Ninja 400 forums made me wary of buying either. I looked hard at the Ninja 400 as my new bike- it's very light, quick, and cheap. Perfect little sporty commuter that offers more features and more fun the the CBR500R. But, because it was a new bike, I decided to wait and see how the ownership experience was for other riders before buying. The Ninja forum became full of posts about transmission issues and other problems. Looking into bigger alternatives, the Ninja 650 seemed to have a lot of issues as well.
I had my previous Honda for 3 years with zero issues, and that seemed to be the norm for the bike, so the chance of having problems with idling/stalling/fueling/etc.. made me wary of switching to Kawasaki. Then Honda updated the 650 with everything I wished the older F had, and I was sold.
Some people thought the new Honda 650 was too expensive when compared to the Ninja 650, but I didn't think so when really looking at everything you get for the price difference (better brakes, better suspension, more power, etc..). I think Kawasaki has really gone after the 'value' position of the motorcycle market, so their competition seems more expensive within the same catagories, but this business strategy might cost them long term owners if their reliability has suffered. I know the reliability of my two Honda's will be a big factor when deciding on my next bike.

I'll 2nd the value position taken by Kawasaki marketing. I'll submit that prior to release, Honda R&D has radically tested their engines both static and road. They've got the funding to do so....I'll surmise Kawasaki not so much, hence their longer term 650 issues so evident in frequency as reported in their forums.

Pricing? Yes, you DO get what you pay for. No regrets whatsoever on my 650R purchase here.

Had I a rattling, stalling, non-starting, fuel leaking example...not so. Ain't likely gonna happen on a Honda.
 

Enrico

2018
CB650F ABS
Mar 28, 2019
Rattle? are you referring to the 650 Honda engine? If so, you're either being hypercritical, sarcastic or something loose. Yeah, I'm experiencing very minor vibes at certain RPM, not even worth mention....but RATTLING? No way, not on my 650. If so on yours, I'd suggest you check your shit out, SOMETHING is clearly wrong.

Out of the few issues posted here on Honda 650....many seem to be owner created via modding (in some cases) , removing restrictions or doing "add-ons". This forum relatively boring in respect to real, genuine issues... electrical or fuel.

Compared to KawiForums, 650R section posted numerous idling, starting, poor running, cutting out, noisy valve train .....WOW. It seems busy over there!
As far as my comments go , I wasn't saying anything about vibration, just the rattle that I thought was accepted as being normal on the cb650f and mentioned on here previously ,usually in relation to the PAIR valve I think. No modifications to my bike , it is bog standard , no shit!
 

ducatiman

Vendor
2019
CBR650R
Jul 27, 2019
New York
No mods here either...with no perceived rattling or noises, just very minimal, minor vibes a bit under/around 6000RPM.

Reading the multiple 650R complaints on Kawiforum....I'm sure glad I got the Honda.
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
Riding Since
1975
- So am I, a good bike, but I am going to try and record the rattle on my bike if I can fathom out how to do it and post it on here.
It's just the typical PAIR valve rattle the newer Honda's have, don't even bother trying to get getting a video.

Goes away around 3,000 RPM or so, comes back at idle. Normal.
 

baugustine

2014
CBR650F
Staff
May 21, 2016
Ventura, CA
ducatiman @ducatiman the PAIR valve noise being described is like marbles in a can. You’ll most likely hear it just off idle in lower gears. Lots of members block off the ports to make it smoother and sound more motorcycle-like.
 

ducatiman

Vendor
2019
CBR650R
Jul 27, 2019
New York
Nope I'm certainly not experiencing any such sound of marbles. Bike is dormant for winter...I'll re access in spring. Is this condition a certainty, on every 650 power plant?
 

miweber929

2014
CBR650F
650 Alumnus
Staff
Feb 13, 2015
Woodbury, MN
Riding Since
1975
Nope I'm certainly not experiencing any such sound of marbles. Bike is dormant for winter...I'll re access in spring. Is this condition a certainty, on every 650 power plant?
Seems to be, owners of ‘19s have mentioned it.

I wouldn’t overthink it if it doesn’t bother you or you’ve not heard it.
 

ducatiman

Vendor
2019
CBR650R
Jul 27, 2019
New York
Getting way off track, within this thread, I'm trying to digest whether the numerous 650 Kaw fuel, start, noise issues are by mechanical flaws or user maintenance errors or what?
 

Jerry

2016
CBR650F ABS
May 18, 2017
The Netherlands
The pair valve sound really is something you probably won't notice if you don't know about it and aren't actively listening for noises.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that if the pair valve is annoying you, you're mostly doing it to yourself by getting in that frame of mind in the first place.
 
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